3ebatcl mitt Pram/IMO in Parliament. IRISH TITHES: THE APPROPRIATION PRINCIPLE.

In the House of Commons, on Monday, the order of the day having been read for going into Committee on the Irish Tithe Bill, Mr. Waal) rose to move a series of resolutions, in which the former decisions of the House relative to the appropriation of a surplus of Irish Church revenues to the general instruction of the people were recited, and erding with an instruction to the Committee, " That they have the power to make provision in the present bill for giving effect to these resolutions, by proceeding to a better distribution of ecclesiastical property in Ireland, and by appropriating the surplus revenues of the present Chinch Establishment, not requited for the spiritual care of its members, to the moral and religious educatiun of all classes of the people, without distinc. tion of religious persuasion."

Mr. Ward referred to the repeated declarations of the present Minis- ters in favour of the Appropriation principle ; and especially to it re. markable speech of Sir John Hobhouse, who in 1835 had declared, that he never would, for the purpose of keeping in a Ministry, consent to forego the Appropriation principle. It was no justification of the abandonment of that principle by the men who had made it the corner- stone of their Cabinet, that the Lords refused to pass a Tithe bill which embodied it. All measures of improvement had been resisted by the Lards. It was not to be expected that the Appropriation prin- ciple could he carried without II great struggle. He could not under- stand the reasoning of Ministers, who argued so confidently that it ought to be maintained, and then concluded that it was their duty to abandon it. Lord John Russell said he followed the " inclinatio tern- porn's." He wished the noble lord would translate these words; which appeared to hint to have great elasticity, and would justify and comprehend any thing. When Sir Robert Peel was Premier, it was thought by many that he would shape his course in compliance with the majority of the House of Commons ; but Mr. Senior, in a remarkable pamphlet, maintained that Sir Robert Peel would persist in his oppo. sition to the alienation of Church property, and be out of office in two months. That prediction was fulfilled. Sir Robert sacrificed power and place to his opinions; but they must have a new edition of the pamphlet to explain bow those who rose upon his fall could adopt Sir Robert'S opinions and retain office, without sacrifice of character. There was no intervening change of circumstances to justify the change of Minis- ters on this question. Tithes were not more popular in Ireland now than in 1835. The immense masses collected to protest against pay- ment of tithes, and the difficulty of collecting them, proved that. The present measure would have the effect of directing against rent the hostility HOW prevailing against tithe. In 1836, Lord Howick had de- clared that such would be the consequence of a simple measure of commutation without appropriation. Earl Grey's authority had been quoted by Lord John Russell to justify the abandonment of the Ap- propriation. Now be bad the utmost respect for Earl Grey, and grati- tude for his services, but he did not consider him a good authority on Irish questions— When he looked back to the state of the House in 1833, the overwhelming majority on those benches, and the purposes to which it might have been applied had not confidence in the Ministry been shaken by the Coercion Bill—a bill which he could not look back to without shame and regret for having himself supported it,—when he recollected all these things, he did say that Lord Grey was not an authority upon which he should be inclined to place reliance in regard to lush matters.

There were two courses open to the House--

One was, that they should abide by the principle which on five different oc- casions they had affirmed ; that they should not try to give this principle any practical effect, but wait till time and public opinion enabled them to do so. This course would be consistent, and ought, in his opinion, to be followed. The other course was at once to admit that they had been in error,—that the gentle men opposite were right and they were wrong; and that, having broken up two Governments on this principle, they acre now ready to abandon it and to adroit that it was erroneous. Lord John Russell had told the House that this bill would tend to produce peace and conciliation. What security was there for this? Was there any security that the Irish Municipal Bill would pass this session ? Was it nut certain that the bill which they sent to the other

i

House would not pass in its present shape ? He called upon the noble bind to reconsider the course he was pursuing. It was impossible to look to Ireland without feeling that no measure would be satisfactory unless it comprehended the one thing wanting. The people of Ireland did not seek the total abolition of tithes: what they did vac was, the extinction of tithes, or their appropria- tion to useful public purposes. He called upon the House not to sacrifice to mere temporary expediency or party convenience the eternal principles of jus- tice. He called upon all those who had on a former occasion recur led their asseat to the principle contained in his resolution, to support it now, however their votes might be misrepresented, and however unpelateahle the motion

might he to some who in their consciences concurred with i him in thinking that the course he was pursuing was the course hest calculate.' in the end to

promote the interests of religion rightly understood, and to secure the peace and stability of the British empire. (Loud cheers.) Mr. HAWES seconded the motion.

Lord Moarera opposed it. He did not wish to have the appear. ance of carrying on the argument after dropping the measure : that would be the " whim imbelle sine ictu "—going on railing after they bad done fighting. But be still maintained the truth of all that he bad formerly asserted respecting the Irish Church. Three times bad Ministers been repulsed in their attempt to carry this question ; and be could not shut his eyes to the fact, that the prospect was 110t, to say the least of it, one whit more promising for the result of a fourth attack. Under these circumstances, and looking to the urgent neces- sity of' settling this question, Ministers had brought for said a bill that did not comprise the Appropriation. principle ; and having taken that step, they must oppose Mr. Ward's motion.

Mr. Hume said, that the situation in which he and many others were placed was extremely unpleasant. (Loud laughter.) It appeared that it was the object of the Government to remedy the abuses in the pie-sent system of the Irish Church, as far as It was possible with the concurrepee of the other side of the House; fur the whole question appeared to rest with them. Now, his own opinion was, that it was vain and useless to attempt to gain any thing by means of conciliation. If he thought that there was the slightest chance of restoring peace to Ireland by the proposition of the noble hod, he would readily support it. But it appeared to him that they had delayed this act of conciliation too long, and in the present state of Ireland he would not he satisfied with so paltry a concession as that proposed.

With these opinions, he should support Mr. Ward.

Mr. O'CONNELL opposed Mr. Ward's motion, because it led to a deception and delusion—because it offered to the Irish people sonic- thing as the purchase-money of a Tithe-bill, which bill they had refused unanimously to take on such terms. Three years ago they would have taken a Tithe-bill with the Appropriation, but they would accept no such terms now. They were not " agitated" or organized by leaders, but they came forward in tens and hundreds of thousands to demand the total extinction of tithes, without which they would not be satisfied. He contrasted the Catholic millions with the small Protestant mino- rity, and dwelt on the injustice of compelling the former to support the Church of the latter. He declared, that in the whole course of his life he never knew Ireland to be in so dangerous a situation as at pre. sent. Things were come to that pass, that if something were not done, the armed resistance and conflict of parties would produce a wretched- ness, terror, and insecurity for person and property, absolutely incal- culable. Tranquillity was but on the surface—there was a volcano ready to burst beneath their feet, and involve the whole community in destruction. If there were not actual outbreaks, it was because the people desired not to disturb the existing Government.

Mr. HARVEY said, there appeared to be a well-understood discord between many parties in the House. It was gratifying to know that the soundness of opinions was tested by time—

He recollected three years ago, when he was denounced by Mr. O'Connell for not supporting the very motion which his learned friend was now opposing. He was told, and warned, that his conduct would forfeit to him the confidence of his constituents. Yet, though all this was predicted of him, it was still some satisfaction to him to know that the position Ile then took up was now con- curred in by the very parties who denounced him for it.

He was astonished that the Tories, who railed against appropriation, committed sacrilege—

They were told that Popery was stalking through the land, and that nothing but thrusting clergymen into every pulpit would keep it at all at bay ; and yet, in this bill, honourable gentlemen opposite, the lights of the Church, were about to sanction the principle of taking thirty or twenty-five per cent. away from the already inadequate funds of the Church. As a Protestant, he felt called upon to express his astonishment that those who were most prominent in their remarks on the necessity for pacifying Ireland, should, with reference to the present unhallowed project, preserve such unbroken silence. But his asto.

nishmeot was converted into indignation when he considered the motive which prompted this conduct. It was grounded on that deep selfishness which led men to look to their own interest whilst they professed an anxiety for religion, and which showed them to be prepared to sacrifice the cause of that religion when it served their earthly purposes to du so. Let them come to the ques- tion at once: had the Church of Ireland too large a revenue or not ? if it had, who was entitled to the surplus ? On what ground were the landlords of Ireland entitled to it ? On what ground were the landlords of Ireland to be placed in a better position than the landlords of England ? If the Opposition were prepared to say that there was a difference in the circumstances of the two countries, then let them keep the two Churches in a state which would show a reference to these circumstances of difference; but if they contended, as he had heard them contend over and over again, that they were bound to legislate for the Church of Great Britain and Ireland without taking into account the relative pesition of the two countries, and to deal with each Church as though it were one and indivisible, then, if there were found to be a redundancy of revenue in one country, and it was stated that there was an inadequacy of means for the support of the Church of England, why should they not bring the superfluous funds of the Irish Church in aid of the starved and beggarly revenue of the Church of England ? (Cheers and laughter.) Would they leave their ill-requited Bishops

to bolster up the cause of Christianity unaided Would they longer suffer it to be a matter of reproach, that the lights of Protestant Christianity were starving, whilst they bad it in their power to draw from the superfluous rove. nues of the Irish Church those funds not to be found in their own beggared country ? But this was not the ground the honourable gentlemen opposite took ; and therefore he asked them to state boldly, were the resources of the

Church of Ireland, as applic able to Pr ■testant purp uses, too great for the de- mands of the Church, or inadequati, to them demands? It they were too large to apply them to the purposes of the Irish Church, let them 'be brought into the funds of the General Church.

Was there any Member of tender and yielding conscience. who really believed that Ireland would be restored to tranquillity by this measure ? That person greatly deceived himself—

Far better would it be to allow tidies in Ireland to remain as they were. He recollected the shout of derision with which lie was received when he asked, was not the law sufficiently strong to maintain and enforce the right of the tithe.ownel. lie was told it was impossible; that the living might be driven

and the dead matter brought to market, but that no buyers (-mild be found. This, at the time, he considered a blind and fanciful prediction. lie believed

it now to be all a fraud. The fact turned out to be quite otherwise. The

law had vindicated itself, and it was fULI1141 to be as competent to referee the

claims of the clergy and impropriatots of tithe in Ireland as in this country. Then why not stand by the law? Were they prepared to rob their own

clergy of SO per cent? When they saw the clergy imp neyiug over the moun- tains of Ireland, and wading through its streams in passing from curacy to curacy, and all that for the paltry sum of e0/. or 100/. a year, email they stand quietly as it were on the banks of those rivers and see these stied lights of the Protestant Church place thetmelves in eituatiotis which exhibited thou as the effivering memorials of Christianity, without calling forth any proof of sympathy and support from those who pofessed to be their friends. Let it not go forth that this propositiou would be the means of pacifying luelane, ( and there was no sacrifice almost which he should not be prepared to make fee that purpose,) and then an opportunity would be afforded of recurring to the

Interests mixed up in the affairs of this mighty. empire whieh had hem: so long neglected and deferred. Ile believed that there was great fraud in the design with which the present proposition teas made; that it tended to convey insult

to the public, and to cause a neglect of the real business of the countiy ; and as he hazarded his former seat by a similar declaration, he did not hesitate to [wow, that he should never support a preposition which he thought dishonest in its pin pose, and which must prove fatal in its effect. ( Cheers.) Sir ROUEILT INGLIS `aid, that the reduction of ;II per cent. from the gross tithes was too much.

The House divided—

For Mr. Ward's recognition of the Appropria- tion principle Against it Majority Sir CHARLES STYLE moved that the bill be committed that day date months.

After a brief debate, the motion was negatived, without a division ; and the House went into Committee.

The chief discussion, which was not lung or interesting, was on a motion by Mr. Sitaw, to alter the third clause, so AS to make the de- duction oil the conversion of the tithe-compositions into rent-charges 25 instead of 30 per cent.

Lord MORPETli opposed this motion ; but it was carried, by 'SS to 167 ; and the clause so amended was ordered to stand part of the bill.

No further progress was made, in consequence of repeated motions for adjournment : those !notions were nceatived by large majorities, but ultimately the minority succeeded, and the Committee rose.

SHERIFFS' COURTS.

On Wednesday, Sir Roma Hoare, the Solicitor-General, moved the third reading of the Sheriffs' Courts Bill. Ili support of the mea- sure, he stated that out of 94$ eases, which had been tried under the new system, there had been only J6 new trials- : The former bill which hail been introduced on this subject, proposed te ex- tend the operation of the Sheriffs Courts to all descriptions of civil actions: iu the present bill, however, it was proposed still to restrict their operation to cases of debt, but to extend them to amounts of 50/. instead of 201.

Mr. JOHN JEnvis would not agree to the tided reading of this bill— It had been„statell that the Judges had approved of this Idll ; but so stated, he had reason to believe, without sufficieet authority. Some of the Judges might approve of it ; but there w rs hi, doubt that all those Judges whose opinions on such a subject were entitled to most weight were, with a single exception, opposed to the bill. lie knee the history of the bill very well : it was originated by an attorney at Brighton, who wished to practise in the Sheriffs Courts, either by himself or his clerks. When the bill was last year under discussion. he moved a clause tint no case above the value of '201. should be r ied before a barrister of less than three years' standing. This clause was agreed to, and considered a great improvement of the hill; but, in consequence of its having been omitted to provide fur the payment of the barristers so en- gaged, the bill waspoetpoited. With respect to the argument of the Solicitor- General in favour of the new system, chat out of 948 cases unly :36 new trials had been granted, that argument bore in his mind very little weight, because it was well known that there was a standing ride in the Courts not to grant a new trial in any case where the matter in dispute did not amount to 51. Innu- merable instances of abuse occurred which were never heard of ; and to show the way in which the system was liable to abuse, he would state that, in three cases of appeals in which he was engaged, the attorney for one of the parties, being the Toler-Sheriff' of the county, had Pied the eases himself. He was convinced that, if they were to throw out this bill, they would be doing a benefit to the profession certainly, but at the same time a great act of justice to the public at large.

He moved to put off the third reading for six months.

Mr. AGLIONBY seconded the amendment. So far from the country calling for an extension of the opt-ration of the-se courts, there was a loud and general demand for the total abolition of the system.

Mr. VILLIERS had heard nothing different frotn what was always used whenever any reform in the operation of the law was proposed.

Mr. HARVEY contended that the present system acted beneficially, and he approved of its extension— Ile had obtained a return which showed that of everyulil-red thousand causes litigated, at least 80 per cent. were for sums not exceeding 501. The principle of this bill was already acted upon by allowing claims for GUM not exceeding 20/. to be tried in She-tiffs' Courts. lie had not heard any com- plaints from the mercantile or trading community against the working of that jurisdic- tion and the only reason why the present bill for an extension of the was opposed was, because it tended to lessen the fees of those whose notions of justice always exactly corresponded with the amount which they teemed for their services in its vindication. Ile supported the ball, then, because its principle was confirmed and established by experience, and because it bad

received the sanction of the solemn and sufficiently slow judgment of the legal authorities of the other House, from whom it came recommended.

Mr. Sergeant TALVOURD said, that the bill did not give an adequate jurisdiction ; for it dispensed with a judge altogether. In reference to Alr. Harvey's statement, be must remark, that though 100,000 writs were issued, not more than 800 came to trial in one year.

Mr. Sergeant JACKSON objected to intrust the decision of four. fifths of cases litigated to an incompetent tribunal.

The House divided—

For the third reading 54 Against it 23 Majority 31 The bill was read a third time.

Mr. JERVIS wished to add a clause, providing that no case in which the sum litigated exceeded 20/. should be decided, unless a barrister of three years' standing presided in the Sheriff's Court. The SOLICITOR- GENERAL refused to allow the clause to be brought up ; and the bill

passed. LORD DURHAM'S PROCEEDINGS IN CANADA.

On Tuesday, Lord ELLENROROUGH called the attention of the Peers to Lord Durham's dismissal of the Executive Council in Canada, and appointment of a new body to act in the same capacity. ( He read Mr. Secretary Buller's letter, the substance of which was stated in the Spectator last week.) It appeared that Lord Durham had appointed, to form the new Executive Council, Mr. C. Buller, M.P., the Chief Secretary, Mr. T. E. M. Turton, Secretary, Colonel G. Cowper, Kill., Military Secretary, the Provincial Secretary, and the Commissary-General. He understood from information not yet received by official despatches, that the old Council had been dissolved. Naw, lie thought that a question would arise as to the legality of the whole proceediug ; and that it was doubtful whether her Majesty herself could dis- place those persons, except for misconduct or some sufficient cause. The neces- sary result of this proceeding on the part of Lord Durham was, that the five persons holding office, and who now formed the Executive Council, became, by an old custom of the colony, the sole board of audit ; and consequently, those persons would have, as auditors, to examine and pros their own accounts. But more than that, the Council so formed became also a court of appeal ; but with.

out authority from this country that court could not sit. If, however, authority was granted, then the Council became a Court of Appeal, and Mr. Turton might become Chief Justice.

Ile wished Lord Glenelg would state whether Lord Durham, in thus composing the Executive Council, acted in accordance with in- structions, or had acted without instructions or contrary to them ? But be bad another question to put respecting the Special Council— In the act which had recently been passed, Parliament did not create a Go- vernor-General for Canada, or invest him with power to act solely on his own responsibility, but, on the contrary, the act created a Governor and Council; the Council being for the purpose of advising with the Governor on all questions of policy relating to the colony. The act rendered it necessary that her Majesty should constitute a Special Council, and all the power with which the Governor was vested was the power of appointing such a number of Coun- cillors as he might see fit ; and to the Governor, with the Council, the Legis. lature delegated the powers, under certain limitations, which had formerly been exercised by the Parliament of Lower Canada. Now, lie believed there was no one in that House, nor in the other House of Parliament, who imagined, when the act he alluded to was under discussion, that they were to create a Governor- General to act with a sham Council ; but, on the contrary, that the object was, that the Council should be composed of persons resident in the country, pos- sessing extensive local knowledge, and therefore competent, without hesitation, to offer sound and independent advice on all the propositions of the Governor, and in every case of emergency. They proposed that the Council should he so composed as to allow them to infer that consideration would go before action. Sucht mainly was the intention of the Legislature : but if the Governor-Ge- neral, in composing the Special Council, acted on the principle which was laid down in the letter he had read,—if he acted on the principle that no person resi- dent in Canada should become a member of the Council,—then the Special Cuun- cil, like the Executive Council, would be a mere sham Council, incapable of advi- sing the Governor, from local knowledge, and incapable of exercising that benefi- cial influence over the actions of theGovernor•General which Parliament intended it should exercise. If the SpecialCouncil was formed upon the principle laid down in Lord Durham's letter, then the Council was not bona fide what the Legislature intended it should be ; and a body framed upon that principle would be utterly incapable of carrying out the provisions of the act or the intentions of Parlia-

ment. The second question, therefore, which he had to ask Lord Glenelg, was this—had he or had Government issued instructions to the Governor-General

limiting the persons to be appointed, and directing that the appointments should be given exclusively to persons not resident in Canada ; or, if no such instructions had been issued, then he begged to ask whether the Government Lad received from Lord Durham any information, any despatch, stating the pi inciple upon which tie Special Council had been formed?

Lord GLENELG said, that the only information be had received with respect to the proceedings adverted to by Lord Ellenborough, was in

the Quebec Gazette, to which all their Lordships had access. He had re- ceived no letter of explanation, and therefore could only refer their Lordships to Mr. Charles Buller's letter—.

There was nothing in the instructions issued by the Government to the Governor-General as to adhering to any particular class of persons in the forma-

tion of the Council, or any thing limiting the persons to be appointed, or re-

main the appointment to persons not resident in the colony. The Legislature had thought proper to intrust the Governor-General with powers the most ex- tennis e ; and the Government, acting on the same principle, had considered it advisable to leave to Lord Durham the power of deciding, on his arrival in the colony, what would be the best course fur him to pursue; and accordingly had issued no specific instructions in regard to his proceedings.

Lord BROUGHAM said, that Lord Glenelg might suppose he had given a satisfactory answer to Lord Ellenborough's questions, but he enter- tained a very different opinion- : The formation of the Council was not a matter of option ; for the second section of the act directed its formation, and gave a power to her Majesty, with the advice of her Council, to issue specific instructions to the Governor to constitute a Special Council, and to authorize the Governor to appoint such and so many persons as he might see fit. But Lord Glenelg might say that that was only permissive ; but then it ought to be observed, that, by the provisions of the act, the functions of the Local Legislature being suspended for five years, no laws could be made but by the Governor acting in conjunction with the Special Council; so that it was clear that the formation of the Council was not optional. Such being the case, he begged to ask whether the Govern- meot nn this side the water had performed the part which the rot required them to perform, and whether any instructions had been issued under the sigmmanual for the purpose of enabling the Governor-General to execute the functions with which the Legislature had invested him, by the formation of a Council ? He asked that question, because, until her Majesty in Council authorized the Go. vernor to appoint a Council, every thing must remain at a stand-still ; for no law could be passed till the Council was formed, and that could not be done without special instructions from the Crown. It might be inconvenient for Lord Glenelg to reply to the question at that time ; and if it was so, he should not press fur an mower till to-morrow. He could not, however, but think, judg. mg from what had fallen from Lord Glenelg, that they had indeed appointed some dictatorial person as Governor-General of Canada, and one who did not think it necessary to give his masters at home any information in regard to his proceeding ; for he would venture to say, that Lord Glenelg was in a state of as happy ignorance in regard to the proceedings of the Governor-General, as WdS he himself and every other noble lord in that House. (Laughter.) Now, he would say, let him do what he pleased, only let him tell them what lie did do.

Lord GLENELG said, that Lord Brougham, carried away by his ex. cursive imagination, had fancied that no reply had been given to a goes. tion of Lord Ellenborough, which question Lord Brougham repeated, but which was very different from that put by Lord Ellenborough-_ Thequestion which Lord Ellenborough had asked, was not whether any in. structions had been issued by the Government in regard to the formation of the Special Council, but whether any instructions had been issued preventing the Governor from appointing any person as a member of that Council who was resident in the country. To that question he had replied, that it was not so; that the Government had issued no such instructions. But Lord Brougham said, that he wondered no instructions had been issued by her Majesty, with the advice of her Council, for the purpose of carrying into operation the pro. visions of the act, and for enabling the Governor-General to proceed to the formation of the Coruna. Now, lie begged to say that such instructions had been issued by her Majesty ; so that, therefore, Lord Brougham's remarks were equally unjust and uncalled for.

Lord BROUGHAM bad intended to be as merciful as possible. He did not intend to say any thing severe. He believed that Lord Glenelg has misunderstood him— His question was, whether the instructions which had been issued pointed out the quality of the persons to be appointed members of the Council ; for the act provided not only that the number, but also the kind or quality of persons should be specified. The act said " such " as well as " so many ; " and he now begged to ask whether, in the instructions which had been issued, the qua. lity as well as the number of the members of the Council had been pointed out ? Lord ELLENDOROUGH said, that Lord Durham had dissolved the Council appointed by Sir John Colborne. Lord Durham had, it ap- peared, without authority, dissolved that Council, and had formed a new Council, on a totally different principle from that which he found in existence, and which had been sanctioned by the Queen.

Lord Rtrost said, that the act only dissolved the Legislature, not the Executive Council ; but Lord Durham bad also dissolved the latter, and reconstructed it after a fashion which the Canadians bad always protested against.

Here the conversation dropped.

On Thursday, Lord ELLENDOROUGH asked Lord Glenelg for some specific information relative to the authority vested in Lord Durham.

By the first clause of the act passed at time commencement of the pre.

sent session, the Legislative Council and Assembly of Lower Canada were abolished. The second clause empowered the Queen, by coin.

mission under the Great Seal, or by instructions under the Privy Seal, to constitute a Special Council. The act gave no additional authority whatever to the Governor of Lower Canada. The charac- ter of the measure depended upon the constitution of the Special Council ; which might be made as good an instrument of legislation as the Legislative Council and House of Assembly acting together. It might have the same control over the Governor ; though, not being popularly constituted, it could not possess much of popular confidence. It might however, on the contrary, become, what Parliament never in- tended it should be, an instrument in the bands of an absolute and despotic Governor of Canada. He wished Lord Glenelg to pro- duce the instructions to Lord Durham in regard to this all-important matter of the constitution of his Council. He did not ask for all the instructions given to Lord Durham, but for those given with the ad- vice of the Privy Council, or under commission from the Great Seal. He wished also to know whether there was any objection to produce the instructions given to Lord Gosford.

Lord GLENELG had no objection to lay before tire House the instruc- tions given to Lord Durham, under the second clause of the act ; but he must wait till the next day before he could give any answer respect- ing Lord Gosford's instructions.

Lord RIPON wished to know whether the Earl of Durham's com- mission or instructions authorized him to act in respect to Upper Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick. It was especially neces. nary to know what authority Lord Durham had with respect to Nova Scotia ; the Legislative Assembly of which colony had condemned the course taken by the Government at home.

Lord GLENELG said, that Lord Durham's commission gave him a general authority over all the Colonies in North America, and cer- tainly larger powers than were usually given toGovernors. He thought it would be better to postpone any discussion respecting Lord Dur- ham's commission till it were laid before the House.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH believed that the commission had already been published in the Quebec Gazette; in which case, there would be no need to lay it before the House. He wished to know whether the proclamation offering a reward of 1,0001. for the conviction of any person engaged in the outrage on the Sir Robert Peel was authentic. There were thirty persons engaged in that attack ; and it might happen that the Government might be called upon to disburse 30,000/. in rewards,—a sum equivalent to the entire Crown revenue of the colony for one year. America had offered 500 dollars for the apprehension of the first two offenders, 250 for the next two, and 100 for the others: that was the difference in the reward offered by a mighty independent state like America, and a province of England.

Lord GLENELG said that the proclamation was authentic.

Lord BROUGHAM was surprised to hear that ; especially when he recollected that almost every other man round the Governor was

a lawyer. Did anybody before ever hear of a reward being offend in one country for conviction in unother country ?

Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought that the proclamation pointed to a conviction in Canada.

Lord BROUGHAM did not think that by any means so clear. Had Lord Durham explained his proclamation, in uny of his despatches ?

Lord GLENELG replied, that no explanation had reached him.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE maintained that Lord Durham bad only done his duty in taking prompt and efficacious means for discover-

ing the perpetrators of the outrage. He deprecated the practice of raising debates on the spur of the moment on pieces of Canadian news; as, whatever the conduct of Lord Durham had been, it must ultimately come before the public with every part and effect of it.

Lord ELLENuonouctl held it essential and necessary to discuss the matter now— Parliament had taken away the constitution of the colony for three years, and had substituted for it a government which was arbitrary in its conduct and its character. It was their duty, then, to interfere ; for it was only by their vigilance, their constitutional vigilance, that they could supply the want of that liberty which the noble marquis and his friends had taken away. (Cheers.)

Lord Bn:wcttest would not bend with any degree of content or hu- mility to the 'Marquis of Lansdowne's lecture ; for he could remind Ministers of the answers they gave when complaint was made of the atrocity of the act which took away the liberties of 500,000 of her Ma- jesty's subjects, because some half-dozen of them in one corner of the colony bad been guilty of an irregularity, or, if they pleased, broken

into revolt— He was told that no danger could proceed from the course adopted, because there would be a check upon the Governor, and, above all, that there would be the controlling hand of Parliament ; and lie was taunted with this topic, that there never would be wanting people to take notice of any excess of power, or of any want of determination in the proceedings of the Governor, because there would be plenty who would be glad and ready to take notice of it. The moment, however, that they attempted to avail themselves of this opportunity, they were told that it was a most unconscionable and unreasonable and unjust thing. Why, at what other moment should a thing be complained of than at that at which it was done? Ile had always been disposed to construe cha- ritably and candidly the conduct of Lord Durham ; and he thought he had taken the best means the other evening of showing his tlisinclination to oppose him. When his conduct was blamed, and an appointment which he had made was condemmell, and when severe animadversions were pronounced on that appointment, and on the conduct of her Majesty's Government, all were mute on the subject, and nothing was heard but renewed animadversions upon the noble earl. Eveu the noble viscount, who was not now in his place (Lord Melbourne) said no word in extenuation of his conduct ; but the House with one voice cried out against the conduct of Lord Durham, and not one stood up in defense of him. He, however, stood up. (" Hear, hear 1") He alluded to the case of the appointment of Mr. Turton. Many invidious tasks had been undertaken by men in defence of their absent friends, and he undertook the defence of the noble earl because he was absent. The noble viscount, it was true, did say something upon the subject ; but so fir from offering any- thing in extenuation of the noble earl's conduct, he joined in saying that he was surprised at it, and deeply regretted it. At that moment, because an absent man was attacked, he thought it to be his duty to rise and defend him ; and in doing so, he exposed himself to some misconstruction and some risk. But now, although so little pains had been takeu to screen the noble earl on a former occasion, nothing must be said which at all went to implicate him in his made of proceeding.

The Duke of IVesarecroN had heard a great deal of the extraordi- nary powers conferred on Lord Durham, but he knew nothing of the power intrusted to him except from the act of Parliament ; in which there certainly was no extraordinary authority given— There were, lie believed, some sort of instructions given previously ; but they went no further than to enable him to make certain inquiries awl teporta in respect to a very important subject, the future settlement of the government of Canada. These, however, only went to the formation of the Commission of Inquiry, and he could find no powers given to him generally which had not been conferred upon every other individual who had held the same office with himself. The noble earl, however, had arrived at the seat of his government ; and it appeared that he had performed certain acts in the execution of his duty. He thought that, as he had been intrusted with a very large discretion in in- spiting into and reporting upon the subject of the future settlement of the Canadian Government, they must look fotward with considerable anxiety in reference to his inquiry and report, in consequence of what bad occurred lately, and which had been brought out by the vigilance of his noble friend who eat near him. It was with this view that he considered the discussion Important; and when Lord Glenelg came to lay on the table of the House a copy of the instructions given to the Earl of Durham, they would see if he really had those extensive powers which it was said had been given to him, and whether he had exercised them with discretion. ('p to this moment, however, this House, Parliament, and the public, had no knowledge of any such powers as were stated to have been placed in the hands of the noble earl.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was convinced that Lord Durham would only exercise the powers given him under the act ; and if noble

lords would condescend to wait for a copy of the instructions, they would see what that power really was. If noble lords thought Lord Durham's conduct arbitrary and unconstitutional, no time should be lost by them in moving for his recall.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH maintained, that the summary dismissal of the Executive Council, lately remodelled, after tisiteh communication with Lord Glenelg, by Lord Gosford, and the appointment of three of his Secretaries, an Aide-de. Camp, and is Commissary-General, to act in its place, exhibited an arbitrary disposition.

Lord GLENELG would not prolong the discussion. He had no doubt that, at the proper time, Lord Durham would be able to vindicate his conduct.

Lord WHARNCLIFIE, on Monday, reminded Lord Melbourne, that when questioned by the Earl of Winchilsea respecting the rumoured

appointment of Mr. Turton to an offioe under Lord Durham, Lord Melbourne had replied in these words-

" I say, first of all, that no situation whatever was offered by her Majesty's Government to the gentleman whose name he has alluded to; and next, that that gentleman has gone out to Canada, if he has gone out at all—which I do not mean to deny—without any prospect of an appointment, and without any intention on the part of the Government, or on the part of my noble friend the Earl of Durham, to appoint him to any public situation whatever." But it appeared from the Quebec Gazette, that Mr. Turton been appoit tad to the office of second Secretary ut d2r Ls rd Durham"; and he asked Lord Melbourne to explain how this happened ? What- ever ubjertious there might be to Mr. Turtuin individually, they sleank to notlsing compared with the mischief that would ensue (rout the practice of Ministers making statements in Parliament that could not be relied on as true.

Lord 11ELBOURNE said, that in the despatches received from Lord Durham, no mention whatever was made of Mr. 'rurton's appoint- ment; but there could be no reasonable doubt that it had taken place— As for himself, lie could only say, that it was with very great concern and surprise he saw that appointment announced. At the time that he made the statement to the House which had been referred to, he felt confident that no such appointment would take place.

Lord BROUGHAI■1 said, he had no desire to apologize for the offeace which in the ease of Mr. Turton had induced the House to take the unusual step of decreeing a divorce at the suit of the wife in conse- quence of the adultery of the husband. But it was attempted to mix up with that efrence, so undoubtedly great in a moral point of view, the crime of cat, because the person seduced was sister to the de- linquent's wife—

Now, it should be remembered that the gravamen of the offence was the seduction ; because there were many persons who believed it to be no violation of the law of God, (and until three years ago, after Mr. Turton's case, it was no

incest by the civil law of land, as distinguished from the ecclesiastical law,) for a man to marry the si er of his deceased wife. Many men had married their late wives' sisters. Mr. Edgeworth, for instance, had married two sisters. Many noble persons had done the same thing, and the marriage was valid by act of Parliament. In making this statement, he begged not to be misunder- stood: he wished to say nothing to extenuate the crime of seduction ; all he meant was to say something to mitigate the censure which had been passed by BO many on the ground of the incest. lie thought it his duty to say this much; and he would merely add, that it, all his other conduct through lite, the learned person, the subject of the preheat conversation, had been roost scrupulously correct.And that this offence—be admitted a very aggravated cue—was the ouly charge fsver brought against him. He was a person oldie highest attaioinents in his profession ; and in order to accompany his noble friend the Earl of Durham on his mission, had sacrificed a professional income secured to him as the advo- cate of certain claimants from Bengal of :2,000/. per 'rise Bishop of LONDON earnestly protested against the doctrine laid down by Lord Broughton. Was the law of marriage less sacred because it was or hod been only the law of the Church ? As a minis- ter of the Church, be must protest against the admission of such a doctrine.

Lord BROUGHAM said, that he had protested against adultery and seduction ; and he held, and had declared, that the seduction of the wife's sister aggravated the offence. He expressed his abhorrence of adultery, but had separated it from the crime of incest. If it were incest for a man to marry his wife's sister, there were many men who sat in that house, who held a station its society, and with whom, for aught he knew, the Bishop himself associated, who were guilty of that offence.

The Bishop of LONDON considered Lord Brougham's commentary better thou his text. He rejoiced at having elicited the explanation. For Lord Brougham's talents be entertained a sincere respect : he humbly and sincerely apologized to the noble lord, if in his remark there bad been the remotest appearance of personality ; and be hoped thut what lend passed would not make any alteration in the kindly feel- itigs whirls Luid Bioughatis bad insatiably exhibited towards Lim.

Lord BROUGHAM rejoiced to answer, " certainly not ; " but if he had not risen to reply to the Bishop's observations, he should have beep held up for the rest of his life as one who justified adultery.

Here the conversation dropped.

Tile CORN-LAWS.

In the House of Lords, on Monday, Earl FITZWILLIANI presented m. petition from Glasgow, signed by the chairman of a numerous meeting in that city, for the unconditional repeal of the Corti-laws. He ex- pressed his entire concurrence in the views of the petitioners ; who condemned the Coin-laws chiefly on account of their anti-commercial operation. lie did nut believe that these laws could be long main. tatned- It was the misfortune of this question of Corn-laws, that when the first ne- cessaries of life si ere sold at a reasonable rate, the great masses of the people did not attach to it that importance which it desaved ; but, in Isis opinion, when, by operati-n of the seasons, or by any political or other cause, the price' were raised to th, greatest height, the peuple would call fur this code of pro- tection (as it was called) to the agricultural interests being eutirely swept away, and that a duty on foreign corn would be imposed fur the purposes of reveaue. That it would cuine to this, lie had not the slightest doubt; becauae, however prosperous this country might have been for several years back, it was impos- sible for even the most sanguine of toes to entertain the expectation that there might not be a change in the seasons; and the effects that change might pro- duce on the price of corn in this country must force themselves on the mind. Depend upon it, that this code of laws, passed to protect the agricultural inte- rest at the expense of the manufacturing and agricultural labourers, could not be maintained ; and therefore, in his humble judgment, it would be wisdom on the pant of the House calmly to consider the effects of those laws, as shown by the history of them float their first enactment twenty-three years ago.

The Duke of RICHMOND and Earl STANHOPE defended the Corn- laws, as a necessary protection to the classes engaged in agriculture.

Lord AstiBURTONI believed that the existingeorn- laws worked better than any other systems. As to the cheapness of bread, which was urged as a great benefit that would flow from the free admission of foreign corn into England, he would remark, that great nations were indebted for their prosperity to other causes than the cheapness of bread— If they looked merely to that, they would find those countries of Europe where food was cheap in the most miserable condition. Look at Poland, Inc instance. In the account written by Mr. Jacob after his travels, he states that he never saw wheaten bread is the hoods of any labourer east of the Rhine.. The price of bread, then, was not the material point to be considered. He did not see why they should be discussing statements in newspapers, or vague ru- mours, which were calculated to make foreigners think we were a nation of paupers; and which, when they arrived at Dover, only tended to increase their surprise, for they saw every thing to be quite the reverse from that they had been led to expect.

The Earl of HARDWICKE wished to know whether they were safe

on this subject-whether Lord Melbourne was in favour of a repeal of the Corn-laws?

Lord PORTMAN was convinced, when he looked at the state of the corn-markets, that this question must come before this House in a sub- stantive form next session, and under circumstances of peculiar difficulty and interest,-for there would be a great deficiency in the supply of bread, or an immense diminution in the price of wheat ; and then the House would have to decide whether or not a fixed duty would afford the best security to the landed interest.

Lord MELBOURNE stated distinctly, that he had no intention of meddling with the existing Corn.laws ; which had worked much better than could have been anttcipated for the interests of all parties. He certainly would not attempt to alter the system which had been esta- blished; nor would he ever introduce any system of Corn-laws founded on a different principle from the present, unless a decided opinion was expressed on the subject by a large majority of the people. Ile believed that by altering the system no one advantage would be gained, while they would incur evils of the greatest magnitude- It was as a question of revenue and finance that this subject ought to be con- sidered; and while these might flourish under restrictions-while they might flourish under difficulties and in times of depression and distress-white they might flourish under circumstances apparently the most adverse, and in a climate the least congenial-yet their Lordships might rest assured that they could never flourish under a system of perpetual fluctuation. There was the great danger. Next to change, the great evil to be avoided was the fear of change, which produced effects scarcely less disastrous than change its&f. lfe there- fore begged distinctly to state, that it was not his intention to propose any irn- mediate alterations in the present Corn-law system.

End FITZWILLIAM sincerely regretted that such should be the de- termination of Government. To the system of which the Cormlaws were a part, he was decidedly adverse- fly that system, it was attempted to accomplish an object wWell he consi- dered beyond the reach of human power to effect. Time system, in his opi-

nion, went to counteract the designs of the bent ficent Ruler of Oa: Universe, and to prevent that interchange of commodities and that free et,joyment of the produce of the various portions of the globe, so essential to the co u tom t and happi- ness of the people. The declarreion of time noble viscount did not convey* all that

sonic thought it did convey ; and he thought the warm language which had been used on both sides of the House afforded a proof of the dangerous position

the; wets pl wed in by endeavouring to establish a protection for one class which

was enjoyed by no other. He said that the proteation afforded to the agricul- tumi.ts was enjoyed by no other class of society ; because the principle on which all their recent commercial regulations was 1011M8ed required that a fixed pro- teeti m of only :30 per cent. should be given to the manufacturers. That was the principle on which all their late commercial modations had been founded ; and the complaint was general amongst the manufacturers eirt agriculture enjoyed a much greater protection.

'The petition WRS laid on the table.

Miscuatiasimaus.

Tut: BESII:l'ic LS PLURALITY BILL was read a second time in the House of Lords, on Monday.

THE SUGAlt DUTIES Bat. passed on Tuesday.

THE PARTY PROCESSIONS BILL on the same day, Tire Fammrs's ADMISSION BILL on time same day.

APPOINTMENT OF ENGLISH MAGISTRATES. A long and doll d. butte u n this subject took place in the House of Lords on Thursday. Lord ILtaaw000 complained, that Lord Chancellor Cottenham had ap- pointed gentlemen to the Magistracy in the West Biding of Yorkshire, of which he is Lord-Lieutenant, without his approbatiou; contrary to the practice of Lord Eldon and former Chaotellors. Lord CoTTEs- am maintained his right to appoint Magistrates ; and went into a long proof that he had exercised his power disci eetly. The Duke of WELLINGTON, with much warmth, reprobated the conduct of the Lord Chancellor. The motion, which was merely a formal one for papers, was withdraw u.

Tot BEert ACT. Lord Iinouclfam introduced a bill to repeal the Ilth of George the Fourth, the Sale of Beer Act, and to provide new regulations respecting the sale of beer; the chief of which was to prevent consumption on the premises. The Duke of WErmiNcroN, Lord PORTMAN, the Bishop of Dennam, and Lord Roma: approved of the bill. The Doke of Wett.INGToN said, that the Sale of Beer Act was passed to put an end to the brewers' monopoly ; but he had always been aware that it would be the cause of much inconvenience, and now he was perfectly satisfied that it did nothing but mischief.

THE CONTROVERTED ELECTIONS BILT., introduced by Sir Robert Peel, was withdrawn in the House of Commons on Monday ; on which day Mr. Charles Buller's Bill on the same subject was also withdrawn, by Lord JOHN RUSSELL.

THE HACKNEY CARRIAGES 13113, was read a third time, on Wed- nesday, by a majority of 60 to 13. After which, the following clauses were added to the bill, on the motion of Mr. Piiase- ss And be it enacted, that no licence shall hereafter be granted for any omni- bus, coach, chaise, cab, cart, or other carriage which shall be drawn by only one horse, for caraying more than six passengers or persons and the driver thereof ; and that no licence shall be granted for any omnibus, coach, chaise, cab, (Nut, or other carriage which shall be drawn by only two horses, for carry- ing more than twelve passengers or persons and time driver and conductor thereof.

And be it enacted, that iu every such carriage, the number of passengers shall be painted or affixed in a conspicuous manner, both in time inside and on the mashie of every such carriage, in such manner as shall be approved of by the Registrar, or other officer to be appointed by virtue of this act, onpain of a penalty not exceeding twenty shillings, to be p mid on conviction of neglect hereof, before any one of her Majesty's Justices of the Peace."

The bill then passed.

THE LORD'S DAY BILL. Mr. PLUMPTRE moved that the House should go into Committee on this bill. Mr. Warr. and Mr. JERVIS opposed the motion ; and the House refused to " commit" the bill, by a vote of 57 to 45. So it was lust.

THE BANKRUPTCY COURTS Bar, went through the Committee.

THE QUA( IFICATION OF Mesta:as Btu. was passed through the same form; the " report" to be brought up this day.

THE REVENUE.

?abstract of the Net Produce of the Revenue of Great Britain, in the Years and Quarters ended 5th July 1837 and 1838; showing the Increase or Decrease on each head thereof.

Years ended July 5th 1837. 1838. Increase. Decrease.

Customs 19.290,605 18,790,464 ..

£ £ I £

Excise 12,163.800 11.439,296

Stamps 6,5"3.7 71 6,506,080 .. Taxes 1,,471,737 1,5447 ,006 7226948,174 39,106 ..

3720,175 3,62,204 ..

Post-Alec Sliscellaneo as

Total Ordinary Revenue... Inmrest and other Mummies, in. eluding Repayments of Ad- vances for Pablic Works ....

Tot 41 I ncome.... Deduct Increase Decrease ou time Year Quarters ended J my 5th

1937. 1838. I Increase.

£ s Custom Excise Stamps Taxes Post-office Miscellaneous Imprest and other :Monies, in. eluding Repayments of Ad. s :vices for Public Works Total Ordinary Revenue... 10,712,861 Total Income.... 364,382

Income and Charge on time Consolidated Fun, , in the Quarters ended 5th July 1837 and 1838.

Quarters ended July 5,

1837. 1539.

INCOME.

Castoms 4.430345 Exeism' 2,662.564 Stamps 'Taxes 1,647.039 1,609,409 349,000 Post.ollice 59;4,142 Nliseellittieous 11,V96,339 ; 11.369,163

Tontine Money. To CO.Sil brought to this Account to replace the like SuM issued, or to be issued out of the Cousolidated Fund in Ireland for Supply and other Sees it's 253,919 To Cash hroaght to t his Account from the Civil List, Sup-1 •

plies,fee 11,550,459 11,368,163 Quarters em ded July 5.

1937. 1939.

CU:01)E.

Permanent Deld Terminable Annuities Interest on Exchequer Bills issued to meet the Charge ou the Consolidated Fund Sinking Fund Civil List Other Charges ott the Consolidated Fluid, including Civil liovernment Services, formerly paid out of the Civil I.ist 820,616 or the Ilereditary Revenues of the Crown Total Charge.

Surplus

11.350,188 Exchequer Bills issued to meet the Charge on the Consoli- Amount issued iu the Quarter ended July 5, 1)338, in part of The probable Amount of Exchequer Bills required to meet The Surplus of the Consolidated Fund, Quarter ended 5th

dated Fund for time Quarter ended April 5, and paid otfout t !regrowing produce of that Fund for the Quarter Putted Jul) 5, 1838, alter deducting 300,0001. paid off from Sinking Faun the Stuns granted by Parliament out of the Consolidated July 1938 the charge on the Consolidated Fund, Quarter eluded 5t1

Paul, for Supply Sel% ices 5,172,397

July 1838 43,278,26'2 41,947,036 797,139 44,075,100 270,719 444,418 10,983,580 11,317,962 Deduct Decrease Increase on the Quarter • £ 4,430,385 2,663,564 1,617,039 1,609.409 356737 5,727 1,025,717 229,579 44972,773 300,548 10,999,511 £ 4,769,400 2,137,112 1,692,134 1,609,50u 3$t,01.0 10,390 339,013 43,095 9:) 21,263 4,663 177,699 590,834

026,432

Decrease.

£

226,459 . • 1,403,475 300,848 1,102,627

600,141 724,504 76,791 92,971 226,452 £

9,06s

• •

4.769.400 2,4:37,112 1.692,134 1,609,508 381,000 479,009 10,247,186

£

8,1161'50 8,171,157

712,366 709,104 167159 19,211 465.7k6 113,489 96,100 4,518,360 1,303,302 1,930,301 9.537,862 1,930,301 11,368,163 2,6:33,559 7,960,946 511,990

• •