rthatts nut runnings in Varliunitui.

PRINCIPAL BUSINESS OF THE WEER.

Hon= OF Loans. Monday, April 25. Affairs of Turkey; Statement by Lord i

Clarendon—Clergy Reserves, n Committee ; Lord Derby's Amendment negatived by 117 to 77.

Tuesday, April 26. Australian Mails; Question and Answer—Improved Naviga- tion; Lord Wrottesley's Speech. Thursday, April 28. Clergy Reserves Bill, read a third time and passed—Trans- portation; Questions and Answers—Registration of Assurances Bill, reported. Friday. April 29. Jewish Disabilities Bill, thrown out on second reading, by 164 to 115.

Howls OP COMMONS. Monday, April 25. The Budget; Income-tax Resolution ; Sir E. Bulwer-Lytton's Amendment—South Sea Commutation Bill, considered as amended—New Writ for Taunton.

Taesday, April 26. India Bill; Lord John Russell's Notice—National Police; Committee agreed to—Communication with Ireland ; Committee agreed to—Na- tional Education in Ireland; Mr. Hamilton's Motion for Committee, negatived by 179 to 109—Hackney Carriage Bill, read a second time. Wednesday, April 27. South Sea Annuities Bill passed—Mr. Whiteside's Sale, Ste. of Lands (Ireland) Bill, read a first time. Thursday, April 28. The Budget ; adjourned debate on Income-tax—Sheriff's Court (Scotland) Bill, referred to Select Committee—County Election Polls (Scot- land) Bill, passed. Friday. April 29. AL Kossuth; Lord Palmerston interrogated—Budget ; debate on the Income-tax continued—Aggravated Assault Bill, passed—Lieutenant Engle due's Papers referred to Dockyard Committee.

TIME- TABLE.

The Lards.

Hour of Hour of

The Commons.

Hour of Hour of Monday Meeting. Adjournment. 5h 1211 45m .(m) Meeting. Adjournment, Monday 411 .(m) 1211 30m Tuesday 5h 7h 40m Tuesday 411 .(m) Theses Wednesday No sitting. Wednesday Noon .... 5h 55m Thursday 511 . . 711 5m Thursday 41, (at) 1211 45m Friday

5h 911 45m

Friday 411 .(m) lb 30m Sittings this Week, 4; Time, 17111515 Sittings this Week, 2; Time, 421, 28m

this Session, 63; — 123h 34m this Session. 50; — 4950 48m DEBATE ON THE INCOME-TAX.

According to previous arrangement, the debate on the Income-tax pro- positions of the Budget began on Monday; the House having gone into Committee of Ways and Means for that purpose.

The resolution having been read, Sir EDWARD Bunwna-Lvrroir moved as an amendment, that instead of the resolution as it stood, these words be inserted after the word "that" in the first line—" the con- tinuance of the Income-tax for seven years, and its extension to classes heretofore exempt from its operation, without any mitigation of the inequalities of its assessment, are alike unjust and impolitic."

Much in the budget, Sir Edward observed, its entitled to the admiration of the country ; and the Income-tax might be retained to work out the Minis- ter's financial scheme ; but it need not remain as it was, and the country might have all the good things in the budget compatible with the reform of the tax. He asked the House to remove the unpopular features of the tax, and to terminate it at the earliest possible moment. That was the intention of the late Government : but Mr. Gladstone proposed to retain its unpopular features, and continue it to the latest possible moment. Particular interests would not wait until Mr. Gladstone had developed his scheme, but would forestal his balance-sheet before 1860, by propounding re- ductions of their own,—the full repeal of the advertisement-duty and the stamp-duty on newspapers, or the malt-tax. Mr. Gladstone based his calculations on the bold assumption that his remissions- would by 1860 replace themselves. No doubt, the reduction of duties on articles of large consumption has a tendency to compensate any tempo- rary loss of revenue ; but this principle obviously has no application to the duties on soap, in amount 1,126,0001., and customs, 53,00W., making a total of 1,179,000/. of taxes absolutely abolished, and therefore not subject to the commercial law of reproduction. Nor does this law apply to duties on arti- cles of luxury ; nor was he sure that the smuggler would not receive the augmented receipts arising from the augmentation of the spirit-duties. One-third, then, of the assumed surplus is altogether visionary. Sir Ed- ward anticipated that prosperity would augment the Income-tax receipts, and make the Chancellor of the Exchequer unwilling to give it up ; and that its immoral influence as a premium on evasion would rot the character of the English tradesmen. He treated as absurd the concession of the Irish Consolidated Annuities, a partial debt, as compensation for the general im- position of the Income-tax on that country. He criticized the distinc- tion drawn by Mr. Gladstone between land and trade as baseless, since bad debts might compensate the peculiar charges on land ; but the distinc- tion would hold good as regards the fundholder. Arguing that the Income- tax presses severely on intelligence and skill as compared with property, Mr. Gladstone proposed to repair that injustice by laying upon property a new tax amounting to not less than 2,000,000/. a year. (Opposition cheers.) He hoped that Mr. Gladstone would, as others had done before him, retain his position and correct his measure. (Laughter.) It sometimes is repro- sented that gentlemen on Sir Edward's side of the House are indifferent to all taxes that do not oppress themselves : he rejoiced that upon this occasion at least they could triumphantly rebut that charge. It might be true that some had thought it their duty—and he believed correctly thought—to vin- dicate the claims of British industry upon the part of the farmer. It was something of the same principle that they would defend now in the case of the British tradesman—(Cheers, and laughter from the Government side of the Hou.sc)—because they believed that the rights of industry are invaded whenever they tax at the same rate the precarious earnings of labour and their own hereditary possessions. There have been, he believed, some vague intimations of a dissolution in case this measure should be lost. He, and those with whom he acts, are quite ready to encounter such a calamity. He could not pretend to judge how many gentlemen, the representatives of towns, may be disposed to vote against this resolution. He could not doubt their honest motives if they do; but, if they do not, and if the threatened disso- lution occur, let them go back to their town constituencies, canvass them on behalf of the Income-tax, and tell those whose sole fortune is their toil and skill how they have been opposed by those selfish aristocratic country gentle- men of England who were the supporters of Lord Derby's Administration. (Cheers.) Mr. EVELYN DENISON declared, that after listening attentively to the sl*"•• " ‘, • V LTtton, he was at a loss to know what were his. read 4itth regard to this tax ; did he wish to continue it

regf put an encl to it altogether-? For himself, he

thought this was the first time since they embarked on the sea of the In- come-tax that they had seen land—the first time that there had been any fair and reasonable prospect of coming. to anAnd of the tax. He ap- plauded the compensations of the budget, and was determined to support it as a whole. The country would feel, as the House must have felt, that a great mind is engagedin its affairs. The people would know how to appreciate such rare intelligence and such truthful honesty.

Mr. Booxint spoke in a double capacity—as the representative of an agricultural constituency, and on his own behalf as a commercial man ; and he felt the greatest dismay at the Ministerial plan.

The case of his -constituents was made out by Mr. Gladstone in his lumi- nous address when he showed that agriculturists are paying 9d. in the pound while others pay but 7d. At that rate, agriculturists have been mulcted of 10,000,0001. during the last ten years, and would be mulcted of 3,000,000/. more if this proposition were carried. Now, they have no desire to shrink from the competition to which they have been subjected, but they ask to start even in the race. With regard to the manufacturing and commercial community the proposal places them in an improper position. He claimed on their behalf, that there should bosa marked difference between precarious and permanent income. The agricultural community regard the tax on successions " with horror " : it would " go further towards the ultimate dis- memberment of the empire than any scheme hitherto devised"; it would "slowly but surely break up the great landed aristocracy of the fringdom." ("Hear, hear!" and laughter.) Mr. MIME meant to regard the budget as a whole ; and as such he ap- proved of it, although improvements might be desirable in some of its details. He disapproved of. the present Income-tax as unequal; he dis- approved of the apparent intention of Government to abandon direct taxation altogether - but when he saw such material changes propoaed.in many important branches of finance, he was prepared to support Mr. Gladstone's plan. But he differed from both the late and the present Government on the incidence of taxation. He thought the Income-tax should be levied on the following plan. "1. That each person should be taxed for the support of government in propor- tion to his ability ; and, as that ability is measured more accurately, by the value of his property, under the protection of the State, than by any other standard, the tax„ to be equitable, should every year be levied on the value of the property, labour and skill being the property of large classes of the country; and that each person having an income exceeding 50/. a year from industrial property, under Schedules B, D, and E, and all realized property, under Schedules A and C, should contribute and pay tax iitiareotrtion to the value of Income-tax tlita act of and 6 at Victoria, c. 35) should be so modified as to make it a tax on property; including un... der that term the value of all industrial incomes.

"3. That all the property, real, personal, and industrial, in the United Kingdom, should be taxed at one uniform rate on its value."

He did not propose to go lower than50/. a year, because that is the smallest sum by which a family can be maintained in anything like comfort. He

wished an equal tax on property to become a permanent_part of the taxation

of the country, because he was satisfied that the late Sir Robert Peel's system of free-trade could not be fully and fairly carried out, and that they could not reduce the heavy indirect taxes, unless about one-fifth, or 10,000,000/., of the general taxation ware raised by direct taxes. For the last hundred and fifty years taxation has fallen much more heavily on industry than on property.

He complained that the gross amount of revenue raised should be so large. From 1831 to 1841 it was 40,000,000/. annually ; but now it is upwards of 50,000,0001. He concurred in the extension of the Income-tax to Ireland ;

in the proposal with regard to the assessed taxes, because they interfere with labour ; in the repeal of the soap-duty, because it conduces to the health and comfort of the working classes: Colonel SLIITHOB.P said, he had always opposed, and he would continue to oppose the Income-tax. There was a letter in the newspapers from the Chancellor of the Exche- quer telling a poor clerk how much he would gain ; that he was to have his tea, and his soap, and so on, cheap. Cheap and nasty ! (Laughter.) We are to have an inundation of foreign soap cheap.

Mr. FAGAN felt compelled, reluctantly and with regret, to oppose the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He argued that Ireland, just recovering from her embarrassments, could not be justly charged with the Income-tax ; that the Consolidated Annuities ought. not to be considered in relation to this question ; that England had been largely the gainer by the remission of duties concurrent with the imposition of the Income-tax ; that if it were imposed at the eleventh hour Ireland would pay more than her share ; and that it would drive still more emigrants across the Atlantic.

Mr. Buex wondered they should be asked to renew the Income- tax—" a tax which crept into the House under a false pretence."

Mr. Ensexarr believed his constituents are prepared to accept the bud- get as a whole ; but they regret that the timber-duties are omitted, that no amendment is made in the maehinery for the collection of the Income- tax, and that the extension is not accompanied by the electoral fran• chise.

Mr. KNIGHTLEY would not object to the tax for two years ; but he thought it unreasonable to legislate for posterity. Mr. Wnasam WILLIAMS combated the arguments of Mr. regal; and expressed his entire concurrence in-the budget as a whole. Mr. MAGUIRE replied to. Mr. Williams. Ireland has been told she might cultivate her manufactures'; • which, from the time of hook-nosed

William downwards, England has done her best to destroy, She is in a worse position now than in 1842: then she exported 93,000 quarters of wheat and 2,368,000 quarters of oats, in 1861 she only exported 44;000

of the former and 1,141,000 of the latter. IS it a sign of Ireland's pros- perity that no less than 8,700,0001. worth of property has changed hands in the Encumbered Estates Court ?

Mr. WARNER looked upon the fact that Ireland has become an import- ing country as a proof that she is more prosperous now than in 1842. Mr. NEWDEGATE attacked the whole budget.; and excited great laughter by describing the remission of the soap-duty as-" another boon to Man- chester."

He would like to know when these bootie to Manchester are to end? For the last eight years we have been doing_nothing but legislate for Manches- ter. (Cheers .from the Opposition.) He considered that the budget "in- volves another blow at the agricultural interest." (Laughter from Ms .Ministerialleriches.)

Mr. Moscarox Mriavms, comparing this budget and the last, preferred the present, and said no Member need fear to go to any constituency on this question. Sir Wriasam Touren said, if ever there was a budget proposed which made free trade more impossible than ever, by a system of taxation not adapted to it, it is-this-budget.- Mr. DRUMMOND commented on the legacy-duty.

It was not a tax on land, but a tax on elder brothers—no doubt, the best and most distinguished part of the community. Another gentleman said it was a new tax ; but that gentleman must have forgotten the " inquisitiones post mortem." An unfair run upon the house-tax beat the last budget : if there were a dissolution, would gentlemen like to go to the country, and say they would save their elder sons from a tax on succession to their land and take a double house-tax ? But there is something to console the landed in- terest—gold is tending immensely in their favour' to the detriment of the fundholder. As to the Income-tax, no man alive will ever see it taken off. It is said the tax is making our virtuous merchants and traders immoral : is it our wicked laws that make them defraud the people in bread, milk, coffee, cocoa, wile, butter, and the rest? It is clear that any faction may make a run against any budget, and overthrow it ; but if the House is determined to have none, they may as well abdicate their function at once and adjourn. sine die.

Mr. Munn regretted to oppose the budget; but he had always oppo- sed the Income-tax.

Mr. STANHOPE argued in favour of improving the Income-tax.

Mr. J. BALL protested against their discussing financial questions merely as delegates of their own particular constituencies. The House would have to decide between the Income-tax modified by Mr. Gladstone and an Income-tax as modified by the theorists and practical financiers of the Opposition. There might be good reasons for preferring the bud- get of Mr. Disraeli; but if they exist let them be avowed. There were rumours of some magnificent promises which had been made ; he should be glad if they were realized. He thought Ireland would not and ought not to escape the Income-tax.

Mr. Gnoasx could not allow it to be thought that Mr. Ball was speak- ing the sentiments of the people of Ireland. Mr. COBDEN moved the adjournment of the debate. There was a for- mal difficulty in the way of proceeding on Tuesday ; and Mr. DISRAELI said Wednesday [the day for continuing the Committee of Ways and Means as a matter of course] was inconvenient. At last Lord Torix Russzu, intimated, that, by suspending the standing orders respecting notice, the debate could be taken on Thursday.

Mr. Connate opened the adjourned debate on Thursday, in a speech of considerable length. Much of it he has expressed before' such as his argument that if the military expenditure had been kept down to the 10,000,000/. which he would appropriate for that purpose, the agricul- turists would not have had to complain of extra burdens. He took pains to show that if gentlemen on both sides would be extravagant, they must be extravagant at the expense of property, and not at the expense of com- merce.

The Customhouse-regulations, which are the great obstacle in the way of commerce were bad enough when we had to deal with 30,000,000/. or 40,000,000/. of exports and imports, but they are grievous and utterly insup- portable now that we have to deal with 70,000,000/. or 80,000,000/. of exports and imports. The free bale of cotton is delayed on its admission lest it should conceal tobacco, which would otherwise pay 3s. a pound. Reduce the tobacco-duty to 3d. or 6d., and the cotton would not be delayed. The revenue would lose, because there would not, he hoped, be such an increase of smoking as to make up the loss ; but in that, as in other cases, the loss must be made up by increasing direct taxation. The Income-tax is said to be unequal : but is it half so unequal as the tea-duty, which is as much on tea that costs 10d. a pound as on that which Costs 5s. or 6s. ? Is it as un- equal as the wine-tax, which imposes the same duty on Laffitte wine at 5s. a bottle, and yin ordinaire at 2d. a bottle ? Is the demoralization of the Income-tax, or of any direct tax, equal to that which prevents any man from venturing into the tobacco or snuff trade unless he will consent to illegal adulterations? If the assessment tempts to immorality, the proper remedy would be to let the tax-payers elect an assessor, as they do in America. You may see Mr. Abbott Lawrence's name figuring for 700,000 or 800,000 dol- lars, or 1,700,000 of real property, in a printed list of everybody's assess- ment in Boston.

In reference to Ireland, Mr. Cobden advocated fiscal as well as religious equality, to the utmost principle point. He would make the Roman Ca- tholics as free as they would be if they were in America : but they must pay the same taxes. He had seen the working of a system in which a part of the Members are exempt from the general taxation of the empire. Irish Members take little interest in Imperial expenditure, unless it be about a transfer of taxes to some place in Ireland : hence their fights about that bauble the Viceroyalty ; hence their fights about Klimairtham Hospital, A mere nest of jobbing. It is this exemption, not distance—for tra- velling now, is almost as quick as thought—which precludes the idea of admitting representatives of the Colonies to the Imperial Legislature. As to the poverty of Ireland, the Consolidated Annuity tax is levied upon the poor farmer : but the Income-tax is not to be levied below 100/. a year ; which is a very genteel income in Ireland. As to old claims against Ireland, he would say, let the statutes of limitation apply on both sides; let Irish Members make up their minds to pay the same taxes as the people of Eng- land, and to unite with us in advocating economy and retrenchment. Criticizing several minor points in the budget, Mr. Cobden objected to the special boon for the These of relinquishing the stamp on newspaper- supplements, while he exonerated Mr. Gladstone from any unworthy mo- tive in this; and he greatly applauded other parts, such as the remission of the soap-tax and the extension of the legacy-tax. He returned to the conclusion that taxes on consumption must be replaced by direct taxes; and therefore he would not pledge himself in favour of discontinuing the In- come-tax in 1860.

Mr. Sergeant Sun; under feelings of " irritation " produced by Mr. Cobden's speech, attacked him and Mr. Ball for presuming to lecture Irish Members on their duties in that House, as Members for the United Kingdom ; and he argued that Ireland has been an immense loser by her connexion with England. No independent Irish Member could vote for the budget as it stands.

Mr. J. L. Itrestno frankly confessed, that although he had taken part in the outcry in favour of the adjustment of the Income-tax, yet, after hearing the evidence before the Committee on the subject, he now thought that any adequate adjustment would be tantamount to the abro- gation of the tax altogether. It is because he is in favour of direct taxation, and because he saw seeds of direct taxation in the budget, that he should vote for it.

Mr. Frrzsissnvar Frinsmr did not confine himself to opposing the extension of the Income-tax on Trels.nd; but, taking separately the ad- ditional spirit-duty, and the additional legacy-duty, he argued against each one. He believed the tea-duty is reduced only to secure a mar- ket in China for English goods. The budget imposes taxes on Ire- land of three times the value of the boon conferred on her, and in justice to his constituent; he would resist it to the uttermost.

Mr. BELLEW contradicted this view. The budget would be a great boon to the Irish tenant-farmer. Approving of the resolution before the House, he objected to other parts of the scheme; the increased spirit- duties, for instance, which would increase illicit distillation.

Mr. SANDARS, speaking from the Opposition benches, said he was going to vote differently from those with whom he usually acts ; but, taking the budget as a whole, he thought it a great, bold, and statesman- like measure ; and he could not consistently with his duty oppose it. Sir FRANCIS BARING was glad that the amendment challenged the whole principle of the budget. Criticizing the Income-tax propositions at great length, he expressed his satisfaction at the prospect of the termina- tion of the tax, and consented to vote for its continuance unaltered, on that condition. But he regretted he could not support its extension to Ireland.

The tax had been condemned to extinction as a bad tax in time of peace : then why extend it, either ta Ireland or to all incomes over 100/. a year ? As regards the latter, it would replace the humbler classes, who have bene- fited by the success of recent legislation, in their former position ; and that argument is still stronger in the case of Ireland. By elaborate calculations, contrasting the relief which the budget would give to Ireland and the new taxes it would impose on her, he came to the conclusion that Ireland would have to pay 420,000/. more than she pays now, while England would receive an immediate relief of 1,040,000/.

Lord LOVA= would vote for the amendment, because the legacy- duties are to he unjustly imposed on land, and the policy of "V03 Vials " has been adopted.

Mr. Foierrscuz said that he would vote for the resolutions, including the extension of the Income-tax to Ireland, as the best thing he could do for Ireland and his constituents.

The Marquis of GRANBY supported the amendment. He agreed with Mr. Gladstone, that it is impossible to make the Income-tax just without getting into a quagmire, and endangering public credit. But, instead of proposing to extend it for seven years, they should get rid of "so odious, so oppressive, so unEnglish a tax." He thought its termination in 1860 problematical ; as, however honest Mr. Gladstone may be, who can say that he will then be Chancellor of the Exchequer ? -

Sir CHARLES WOOD contrasted the budgets of the late and tho present Government ; showing that the latter is by far the more favourable to the landed interest, even as understood by the Opposition.

The late Government proposed to tax incomes derived from land at 7d. and from trades and professions at 5,14. in the pound. The present Govern- ment proposed, and had made provision, to terminate the tax in stmen years; the lute Government proposed no termination at all, but a periodical re- newal. Mr. Dieraeli proposed to extend the Income-tax to real property at 50/, a year at 7d. in the pound ; the present proposal is to extend it to all incomes between 100/. and 150/. at 5d. in the pound. Would any owner of land say that Mr. Disraeli's proposal was a better bargain for him than the proposed duties on succession, which even the last budget did not save ? Having disposed of the landowners. Sir Charles came to the second class of objectors, the Members for Ireland; and he showed them that, at least for the larger part of Ireland paying the charge on the Consoli- dated Annuities, the Income-tax is preferable to that charge. He took half a dozen of the distressed unions—Castlebar, Aughterard, Skibbereen, Skull, Scariff, Galway—and by a comparison of the yearly amount of the Consoli- dated Annuity charge with the amount payable under the Income-tax, he showed that these unions would gain a total immediate relief of 75691.

On the motion of Mr. GEORGE HENRY MOORE, the debate was again adjourned.

Several questions were put to Mr. Gladstone before the adjourned debate was recommenced, by Mr. LABOUCHERE, Mr. Bamirr, and Sir FITZROY KELLY. In his replies, Mr. GLADSTONE said, with respect to licences, that Government did not intend the severity complained of in the proposed regulations, and that they should he reconsidered. With respect to the assessment of the Income-tax, it is not intended to assi- milate the assessment of house-property for the purpose of the Income- tax with the assessment for the purpose of the poor-rate and the assess- ment of land in England and Scotland will not be altered. Government will submit a proposal with regard to the succession tax on corporate pro- perty. With respect to the question whether the earnings of a family would in the aggregate pay Income-tax, he said that the earnings of children would not be taxed, but as man and wife are one in law, that principle would hold good with regard to the Income-tax.

Sou rn SEA AND OTHER ANNUITIES COMMUTATION BILL.

On the motion for the third reading of this bill, late on Tuesday night, after the Irish debate on National Education, Mr. Sroossn and Sir JOHN PAKINGTON objected to proceeding with it at that hour. Mr. GLADSTONE said, he had distinctly stated that he should be prepared to proceed at any hour. Whereupon Mr. SPOONER moved that the House do now ad- journ; and a division took place—Ayes, 20; Noes, 57. The opposition was renewed on the question being put ; because, it was alleged, Sir Fitzroy Kelly, who had an amendment to move, was not present. Mr. GLADSTONE said that every day's delay is a serious in- convenience, as the bill involves dealings affecting many millions of money in Exchequer Bonds. But as it was vain to proceed in the teeth of an opposition of such determination, he proposed that the bill should be read a third time, and further proceedings stayed until the day fol- lowing. This was ultimately agreed to ; the bill was read a third time, and several clauses were added by way of riders.

Next day, Sir FITZROY KELLY moved the addition of a clause limiting the creation of Two-and-a-half per Cent Stock to 10,000,000/. To this Mr. Gums-rose objected, not only because it would contradict another clause which limited the stock to 30,000,0004, but because 10,000,0004 was too narrow a limit fairly to test the experiment. The feeling of the House was against the proposed limitation, and Sir FITZROY KELLY withdrew his clause.

He then proposed another clause, for the purpose of preventing the acceptance of this stock by trustees without the consent of the cestuiteurs. trusts, or without the sanction of the Court of Chancery, in cases where the parties interested are under legal disability. Mr. WORTLEY said, there is an enormous amount of stock in the hands of trustees; and if it were made necessary to have the consent of all the cestuique trusts, or of all the parties interested in trusts, and if in case of a difference of opinion between the parties it were made necessary that an application should be made to the Court of Chancery—a course which would be ruinous in the case of many small trusts—the imposition of uell conditions must greatly limit the conversion of stock.

After some debate, the House divided—For the clause, 61; against it 128; Government majority, 67.

The Soucrron-Gzsimsr. moved a clause, providing that, in cases of joint interest, no trustee, executor, or administrator should be allowed to, make a commutation into the new stock, should all the parties interested not consent, or should any of them be under any legal disability, without obtaining the sanction of the Court of Chancery in England and Ireland, or the Court of Session in Scotland. This was opposed by Sir FITZROY KELLY, Mr. HENLEY, and Mr. WeLpoLz. Sir Fitzroy moved the omission of the words referring parties in cases of disagreement to Chancery. Upon this the House divided—For the amendment, 67; against it, 134; Go- vernment majority, 67. The clause was added ; and tke bill passed.

CANADA CLERGY RESERVES.

When the Lords went into Committee on the Canada Clergy Reserves Bill, on Monday, the Earl of DERBY moved the following amendment on the first clause ; preceded by a long speech.

Provided always, that nothing herein contained shall be construed to affect the interest and dividends accruing upon the investment of the proceeds of Clergy Re- serves sold or to be sold, or the interest to accrue upon sales on credit of Clergy Re- serves under the authority of an act passed in the 8th year of the reign of Ring George IV., entitled • An Act to authorize the sale of a part of the Clergy Reserves in the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada,' nor any rents arising from Clergy Reserves that may have been or may be demised for any term of years under the au- thority of the said act, nor the interest or dividends accruing upon the investment of such portions of the proceeds of any sales of such Clergy Reserves effected before the passing of this act, under the authority of an act passed in the fourth year of her present Majesty, entitled 'An Act to provide for the sale of the Clergy Reserves in the Province of Canada, and for the distribution of the proceeds thereof,' as are by the said act appropriated respectively to the Churches of England and Scotland, in Canada ; but that all and every the proceeds of such investments, and all such in- terest and rents as aforesaid, shall continue to be appropriated and paid in such man- ner as is directed by the said last-recited act ; that is to say, the share allotted and appropriated to the Church of England shall be paid to such persons as shall be from tune to time appointed to receive the same by the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts, and the share allotted to the Church of Scotland to such person as shall be from time to time appointed by the Board of Commissioners elected, or to be elected, under the provisions of the said act." He described this amendment as based on a principle so sacred that their Lordships would agree to it if they entered upon its discussion free from party prejudice. It would place unappropriated lands absolutely at the disposal of the Canadian Legislature as respects existing appropriations he held the old compact to be still binding, though he would not go the length of say- ing that it was possible for any man to bind successive Parliaments. But the appropriations have been rendered the inalienableproperty of the Churches of England and Scotland ; and the compact of 1840 maintained the distinc- tion between prospective and retrospective power set up by the act of 1791. If the House affirmed the bill as it stood, it would affirm Lord Grey's corol- lary from it, that the Church is dependent on the State and its revenues are at the disposal of the State : and that rule might be applied to the Church in England, or still more to the Church in Ireland. He defended himself against the charge of having diminished the number of Bishops in Ireland, by the effect of that measure in rendering the property of the Church in- violate. He criticized the vacillating conduct of Ministers in withdraw- ing the clause repealing the guarantee ; conduct which showed that they had not matured their measure, and that they could not re- fuse to recognize the guarantee of 1840. After the declaration of the Duke of Newcastle that the effect of that omission would be to con- tinue the guarantee, Lord Derby heard with astonishment that the Law- officers of the Crown were of opinion the guarantee would not be worth anything whatever. It was subversive of all confidence in the statements of public men, first to tell the colonists that the measure left the guarantee unimpaired, and then that by some legal construction the provisions of the bill fell to the ground the moment the Canadian Legislature should exercise the power given to them. He defied the Government to vindicate that transaction. It was their imperative duty to see the guarantee maintained in its integrity, and not by shuffling evasions to enable themselves to frus- trate the guarantee. He maintained that the provision for existing interests is inconsistent with the argument that it is their duty to give uncontrolled power to the Colonial Legislature. He would rather the bill passed without any reservation, because by it they sanction the principle laid down by the Legislature that the rights belonged to "individuals" and not to the body of communicants or churchmen," and that, provided existing interests were maintained, they might deal with any property whatever. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he would not follow the example of Lord Derby, who, in a speech an hour and a half long, which ought to have been delivered on Friday last, had dwelt on the principle of the bill now in Committee.

The noble Earl was a great tactician as well as a great orator ; whether or not such tactics as he had used were appropriate in discussing a bill of this kind, in order to obtain a chance majority on a measure which he did not venture to divide against on the second reading. They were told the bill was sacrilege, and a gross infraction of the rights of properly; and yet the "Conservative party " were so conservative of the rights of the Church of England that they would not divide against the second reading of a measure so described. Lord Derby was not only a great tactician, but a great artist; for he had concealed the vicious principle of the amend- ment, which was liable to the same objections as those he had urged against the bill. He the " Conservative " leader, the leader of the landed aristocracy of England, came before them that night and called on the House to give that respect and stability to money revenue which he denied to land. It was a novel doctrine from any one, and more especially from a Conservative leader, to say that he wished, if the bill should pass, the re- servation of existing interests should be omitted. But had they no prece- dent for the course pursued by Government ? When Lord Derby abolished ten Irish bishoprics, he saved the rights of the then existing Bishops. As to the guarantee, that would stind on the same ground after the bill had passed as it does at the present moment. It was said the amendment was Just and moderate : and it was so in the sense of "splitting the difference" —saying, "We will give over to you one-half of that which you claim for your right, and retain for ourselves the other half." Lord Derby thought the Government had shown great vacillation and infirmity of purpose : but -what was the purpose of the noble Earl ? He stated he was willing to forego the principle of the bill on condition that their Lordships assented to an amendment by which one half of the bill was conceded and the other half rejected. It would have been far better that the bill should have been re- jected on the second reading. But Lord Derby would never take warning. Why did the act of 1840 fail ? Was it because the arrangement it sanc- tioned was unjust ?—No ; but because it was made by the Imperial Parlia- ment without the consent of the Parliament of Canada.

Supported by the Earl of Wicimow and the Earl of DESART, the amendment was opposed by Lord WHARNcaxpre and the Duke of ARGYLL. The Bishop of Sr. Devm's said, the question lay in a narrow compass. The Imperial Legislature had the power of granting to the Canadians the right to deal with local interests; unless it should be maintained that any property, land or money, once assigned to the maintenance of religion could not be diverted from that purpose, there was no ground for refusing the desire of the Canadian Legislature ; for the Canadians themselves have the greatest interest in this question. The rejeotion of the bill would be productive of the most dangerous consequences. The Bishop of LONDON said, it was contended that the Colonial Legis- lature have an inherent right to discuss and decide on all matters relating to their internal affairs : but if they have that power, where is the neces- sity for this bill ; and if they have not that power, the House should hesitate to grant it.

Earl GREY argumentatively showed that if it is " sacrilege " to sacri- fice one part of the Reserves, it is equally sacrilegious to sacrifice the rest ; and Lord ST. LEONAB.DS followed with an argument in favour of Lord Derby's compromise, to save as much as could be saved.

The Bishop of OXFORD pointed out the obvious inconsistency between the speech of Lord St. Leonards and the one he delivered on Friday last ; and proceeded with a grave argument in a bantering form. Was not the position Lord St. Leonards had intended to illustrate exactly this, that their Lordships are going to be parties with the Canadian Legisla- ture in pillaging a third party ; and because they only take half of the purse, they absolve themselves from the guilt ? That was a difficulty altogether inevitable in the position taken up by Lord Derby. The Bishop denied that the Reserves stand upon the same footing as the property of the Church of England and Ireland. The Reserves were granted by Parliament to be administered for the province of Canada. The property of the Church of England was granted to specific parishes, for the purpose of providing the inhabitants with religious instruction ; and it stands on the footing of pri- vate property. See What a difference there is in these cases ! Equity dictates that the Canadians should manage their own affairs ; and it amounts to atheism to represent equity and religion as opposed to each other. In the course of his speech, Bishop Wilberforce, referring to the Bishop of Exeter's speech on Friday, said that his right reverend brother had quoted Burke, but that, either from the shortness of his memory or some other cause, he had left off before he came to the most remarkable part. Burke was speaking of the singleness and nobleness of the powers of the Imperial Parliament ; and then he pointed out how ardently the American colonists loved freedom, and became untractable whenever they saw "the least attempt to wrest from them by force "—that was certainly not at- tempted on Friday night—" or shuffle from them by chicane "—as was at- tempted, perhaps, now—" what they think the only advantage worth living for."

This led to a scene which stormily closed the debate. The Bishop of ExEreat said, the words supplied had no ',bearing on the great principle; which was, whether or not the Imperial Parliament sat, as it were, on the throne of Heaven," to direct, guide, and control all Lo- cal and Colonial Legislatures. The Earl of DERBY would not admit that by this amendment they at- tempted either to "wrest by force" or "shuffle by chicane." The Bishop of Oxford would, he was sure, regret the use of such expressions, and think some apology due for having so pointedly characterized the amendment, It was an application of terms which could not be made without giving of- fence.

The Bishop of OX.FORD explained, that he had made the allusion with a smile, in a playful way ; and had no intention to do what was offensive. At the same time, he must remind the noble Earl, that to speak of the pro- moters of this bill as advocating a shuffling and shifting policy, was cal- culated to prove offensive to them, as he believed it had proved to his noble friends near him.

The Earl of Dzirity—" My Lords,- I accept at once the explanation which has been offered by the right reverend prelate : but when he tells me that it is impossible for him to say anything offensive because he has a smiling face, he will forgive me if I quote in his presence from a well-known author, without intending in the least to apply the words to him-.. A man may smile, and smile, and be a villain.' (Cheers, laughter, and some deprecatory remarks.) I am at a loss to conceive to whom what I say can be offensive—" The Earl of CLAnzunotr—(interposing with great energy and excitement of manner)—" It is to me. (Loud cheers.) It is to me, I say. (Renewed cheering.) I and my noble friends near me were offended by that expres- sion. We are not accustomed to hear such expressions. (Repeated and prolonged cheering.) We are not accustomed even in the language of poetry to hear such a word as 'villain' applied to any noble Lord in this House." (Loud cheering.)

The Earl of DERBY thought this interference uncalled for ; and somewhat angrily explained that he meant nothing personally offensive.

The Committee divided—Content, 77; Not Content, 117; Government majority, 40.

The clauses of the bill were agreed to, and the House of Lords ad- journed at a much later hour than usual.

No opposition was offered on the third reading, on Thursday. In reply to a question from the Earl of Wielotow, the Duke of NEWCASTLE re- peated what he had previously said, that the guarantee clause will con- tinue on its present footing. Should the fund from which the existing incumbents are paid prove deficient, the guarantee will be valid to that extent ; but should the fund be secularized, then, according to the Crown lawyers, the guarantee would fall of itself to the ground, the condition on which it was given being removed.

The bill was read a third time and passed.

NATIONAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

Mr. GEORGE Arrrirotrz Heani.Tokr, in moving for a Select Committee to inquire into the working of the National system of Education in Ireland, entered at great length into the subject. In 1850 he pressed this question in a different shape, moving for an address to the Crown praying that the system might be modified ; and his motion had a large share of support. He had intended simply to state the grounds on which he now asked for a Committee, but the amendment put on the paper by Mr. W. J. Fox to extend to England the National system of Ireland rendered it necessary for him to show what that education is. He agreed with Lord John Russell when he said, on a recent occasion, that edu- cation in this country might be regarded as conducted by great religious bodies aided by the State,. and that religious training should be given in the schools. But the condition offered in England, the reading of the Bible is an insuperable bar to any grant from the State to a school in Ireland. As an instance, he stated that the incumbent of a parish in Limerick had a school containing sixty Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars ; he wished to bring it in connexion with the Board, but he also wished to make the children learn a portion of the Bible, only stipulating that the Catechism should not be taught to the Roman Catholics. The Board declined to grant assistance, because the rules of the National Board forbade the teaching of any portion of the Bible to the children. So that the Protestants of Ireland are placed in a worse condition than the Protestants of England. He denied that there is "an united education" ; the Roman Catholics—and he quoted

Dr. Cullen in support of his views—feel strongly the necessity of religious training ; and it would be idle to suppose that the Roman Catholic doctrines

are not taught in the three thousand schools in Ireland. The system is not an united one ; and it would be worth while to inquire whether the phan- tom of combined education might not be got rid of. It discourages Protest- ants and encourages Catholics.

The principles laid down in Mr. Stanley's letter, the foundation of the system, have been departed from. Mr. Hamilton quoted a letter from Mr.

Stanley to Dr. Chalmers, stating that the Commissioners "permitted the

Bible to be read every day," and also "required the reading of-the Scripture lessons, on which all were agreed, every day." Yet in the Model Schools

at Newry, Ballymena, and Ballieborouoli, the Scripture lessons are not read at all; and at Coleraine only for half an hour on three days in the week. That warrants inquiry. So with regard to local funds. Although it has been stated that the raising of local funds must invariably precede a grant, yet two years ago out of 178 non-vested schools, 136 had no local contribu- tions, and 85 of the teachers had less than 164 a year to live on. Mr. Hamilton explained his own position with regard to the late Govern- ment. Although anxious to carry out the system, Lord Derby was not in- disposed to an inquiry ; and Mr. Hamilton was perfectly satisfied with that understanding, because he thought inquiry might conduce to the adjustment of differences. It is true, Lord Derby subsequently, in another place, stated that after having conferred with Lord Eglinton, he was not able to see his way to a settlement of the question, and that he did not think it advisable to originate an inquiry upon the responsibility of the Government. But Mr.

Hamilton did not think he was warranted in inferring from what then took place, that Lord Derby would have been unfavourable to an inquiry if it had been proposed ; and he had taken the first opportunity as an independent Member of bringing. the matter before the House.

The proposed inquiry must not be looked upon as hostile to the system, which he admitted may now be considered as an institution of the country. The Committee in 1837 acknowledged by its own report that the inquiry had been incomplete ; and that afforded strong grounds for assenting to his motion. It is time to terminate the unhappy controversy about the system and inquire how far it has tended to promote loyalty, industry, concord, good habits, and good feeling. Referring to Lord Aberdeen's condemnation of the part taken by the clergy in thwarting the scheme, Mr. Hamilton said, "the noble Earl

would be glad to see extended to matters of a religious character, as well as to political matters the kind of indifferentism—(Cries of" Oh, oh !">— which characterizes that which bears the designation of Radical Conservatism and Conservative Radicalism." (" Oh, oh !")

Mr. Hamilton concluded by moving for a Select Committee to inquire into the working of the National system of Education in Ireland, with the view of ascertaining how far the instructions contained in Mr. Secretary Stanley's

letter of 1830 have been followed or departed from by the Commissioners, or in the practical operation of the system; and whether, and to what extent,

an united or combined education has been attained under the National sys-

tem; and also to inquire, whether, by any further extension or modification of the rules, framed by the Commissioners or otherwise' the conscientious

objections which many of the people of Ireland entertain to the system, as at present carried into operation, might be reasonably obviated, so as to enable them to partake of the public grant, and render the system more comprehen- sive and national.

Mr. Wrcarssr seconded the motion.

Sir Yonsr YOUNG, in 'reply, defended Lord Aberdeen from the charge of indifferentism; and nailed down the admissions made by Mr. Hamilton, that the schools have raised the standard of education and that the Na- tional system is one of the institutions of the country which he is not prepared to subvert.

It is true, local contributions have been dispensed with in some cases; but he was surprised to hear such an objection urged against the National sys- tem. Those who objected were the greater part of the clergy and the landed gentry ; and Mr. Hamilton had put forward a claim to credit for toleration on their behalf, to which Sir John could not agree. It was di- rectly the reverse : it was a claim to draw funds from the State for their support, and to compel every child to read the authorized version of the Scriptures ; a claim which no Protestant, founding on the principles of the Reformation, ought to make. No doubt, the children do attend the schools

voluntarily, in a certain sense ; but then' some are sent out of gratitude to the promoters of education, others out of fear of the parents' losing employ-

ment; and the inducement to the Roman Catholics is, that the reading of the Scriptures is not enforced. It was not fair to say the priests compel them to refuse the offer except on those terms ; because the Roman Catholic religion depends on authority, and we must presume that its ministers and votaries are sincere. If Lord Derby was not indisposed to an inquiry, at all events he had plainly stated that he was not disposed materially to alter the sys- tem which has now been twenty-one years in existence, and under which not one case of proselytism has occurred. Sir John showed that the system is fairly carried out ; that both Protestants and Catholics have a fair share of its benefits. Of the Commission two-thirds are Protestants, one-half of the in-

spectors, and one-fifth of the thousand masters. He pointed out that, if the sys- tem of separate grants were adopted, acrimonious disputes would arise about

the grants, and all the good effected by the present system be undone. Not- withstanding the great diminution of the population of Ireland by emigra- tion and other causes, the number of children attending these shoots has very largely increased ; thus showing the great attachment of the people to this National system. One would suppose that a system which, while it provides secular education, at the same time provides a religious education for the children, is the very system Mr. Hamilton would wish to see adopted.

By. that system the doctrines of Christianity are inculcated, and the great principle of abstaining from all interference with the religious opinions of

others is enforced. The main cause of the success of the National system is

to be found in the school-books which the Commissioners have adopted. They are books unique in their design and surprising in their execution. They rise gradually from the lowest to the higher branches of knowledge—one idea being linked into another without any abrupt transition ; and these books are adopted not partially, but in all the schools. The consequence is, that they have become a national literature in Ireland, and formed in them- selves a combined system of education. Those books convey to the people of Ireland opinions which they never before possessed, and diffuse among all classes and denominations feelings and opinions, language and practices, which never before prevailed in that country. If the Commissioners had done nothing else than compiled those books, and trained up in the mid- dle ranks of society thousands of children in the principles embodied in those books, they would have gone far to lay the foundation, at no distant period,

of a system of united education in Ireland. He would now ask the favour of the House to listen to him while he read ail:extract from one of the National school-books. He asked it because he has watched the system, and has taken a great interest in the welfare of the schools which he has visited in his own neighbourhood. This is the description given of children going to school on a Monday morning-

" It is Monday morning; and the village, at a certain well-known hour, is quite alive with girls and boys, of every age and size; their hair combed, their faces and hands clean, and, if they are tidy, or have tidy mothers, with neat clothes. The big ones are kindly leading by the hand a little brother, or sister, or neighbour—all on a very important errand ; they are going to school. It is pleasant to walk through a country town or village on a Monday morning. The children are all looking their cleanest and freshest; and their parents have not that tired, worn look, which they get towards the end of the week ; for yesterday was Sunday—a day of rest—a day precious to all Christians. It was the resurrection-day of our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead; and all people who call themselves Christians celebrate this event, and consider the day as a holyday ; for, however much they may differ from their neighbours in other things, in this they all feel alike, that it is happy news to all that their Redeemer rose from the dead, and still lives for them. Surely, it is the quiet, religious happiness of Sunday, the first day of the week, which makes us feel on the second—the first of our work-a-day week—so fresh and strong, • to do whatever our hand findeth to do.' It is Monday, then. Every school in Great Britain and Ireland is beginning the business of the day. Boys and girls of all ages are pouring by thou- sands and tens of thousands into the streets, and roads, and lanes—often over bogs and mountains—on their way to school. But I now speak of the girls and boys of Ireland, and, among them, of those only who attend the National schools, be- cause I know most about them. Of these schools there are 4704, and no fewer .than 520.000 children attend them : 500,000 children, then, are tripping forth, like yourselves, every Monday morning, to school; 5000 masters and mis- tresses are busy preparing to teach them ; and many thousands of parents have just had the comfort of sending out their children to learn what will be good and useful for them now, for their future life, and we hope for ever. But, of all these multitudes of living beings, are there many, are there any, who ever think as they walk along, why they are going to school? or how it came about that there are schools to go to ? Now, this is just what I want to make you think about. How all these thousands of school-houses came to be built, and the books bought, and the teachers paid—as far as they can be paid for such a hard and anxious task—it is right that you should inquire, and right that you should be told. I will explain the thing as far as I am able. The Government—that is, those who govern in the Queen's name, get leave of the Parliament—that is, the gentlemen who are chosen to overlook the Government and watch over the concerns of the people, to set apart a sum of money for building schools, paying teachers, and other expenses belonging to theni. But the number of schools required is so great that this money would not be sufficient unless the gentry gave their help towards it ; and a number of them do give ground and pay part of the expenses when they find that a school is wanted in their neigh- bourhood. So you see that there are very many persons in your country, and in England, who are kind and care for you, though most of them never saw you."

Every one of those secular books teems with secular instruction of the same kind ; and Sir John asked the House whether it does not contain the essence of good feeling, sound morality, and true religion ? Such are the books of secular instruction, which some honourable gentlemen decry ; and that is the system which they say is not founded upon religion. In those

books they would find the facts and history of the Old and New Testament— the series, and connexion, and fulfilment of the prophecies, and all the main doctrines of Christianity ; and they are read by Protestant, Presbyterian, and Roman Catholic. It is a well-known fact, that in every part of Ireland where these schools have taken root and have had fair play, the condition of the people is manifestly improved. And what is the news from America ?

That not in one or two instances, but in hundreds, boys who had been edu- cated in these schools are selected in preference to others, and are the handiest and steadiest mechanics and the most diligent clerks. Napoleon, in the zenith of his greatness, never collected so large an army as 500,000: the number that crossed the Niemen was not more than 370,000, and the number that crossed the Rhine was less : but in these schools there are 520,000 children, who by the munificent grant of Parliament are educated at a moderate cost, and are to go forth, not to perish as an army, but as apostles and ministers of civilization, and who, if the system be continued, would raise the condition of the country. One of the greatest moralists has said that the majority of people in the world never raise themselves from the condition in which they were born : but in Ireland that is not the case since the National system has been established. There are hundreds of in- stances in which boys who had been originally running about the streets in rags and beggary have, by the instruction received in these schools, raised themselves to comfort and affluence. There are many instances, too, in

which, under this system of instruction, a signal aptitude for calculation, engineering, and mechanics, has been developed ; and there are many cases

in which boys who were originally paupers, having been educated in these schools, have afterwards obtained situations which give them hundreds a year in the manufacturing districts of England and America. If the British

Parliament would only persevere in maintaining this system, it would raise, not one hundred, or a few hundreds, but the whole people, from ignorance and moral and social degradation, to all those comforts and appliances which wait upon habits of educated industry and self-reliance.

Mr. NAPIER contended that the motion was not at all intended to sub- vert the National system.

He urged as a great hardship, that because the Protestants of Ireland desire to have the Bible taught in their schools, they could not obtain any assistance from the State ; yet thatin England the reading of the Bible is the condition of receiving State assistance ; and he asked why should the Irish Protestants alone be forbidden to teach the doctrines of their Church ? He asserted that the state of education is very unsatisfactory ; and he read ex- tracts from the report of Mr. APCreedy, the Head Inspector of Schools in 1851, relating to Creme; Dover, Treantagh, Illistrion, Carnagannagh, and Glen, showing that the schools were "not satisfactory. The children, even in the highest class, read, most of them, very imperfectly ; arithmetic very insufficiently known ; grammar and geography not taught to the extent to be desired, nor with the requisite uniformity or system." But, Mr. IPCreedy

remarked, "I found love-songs and political ballads in the copies of the pupils." Is not this a state of things which the House should inquire into ? Lord MONCE. defended the system ; showing that it has been efficient where fairly carried out. A good deal has been said about the conscientious

nature of the objections to that system : conscientious objections are good when people only wish to influence their own actions, but when they want to influence a whole nation it should be inquired whether such ob- jections are reasonable as well as conscientious.

Mr. LUCAS put the question on a new footing.

The National system is, not in form but in substance, a separate system of education. There are Roman Catholic schools and Protestant schools, but

no " mixed " schools. He would like to see it established in name as well

as reality ; but if it ever became really mixed, it would either fall to pieces or produce the greatest misfortune. Although he agreed with much that has been said by the supporters of the motion, still he had great difficulty in voting for it. He wished for a categorical answer from Mr. Hamilton : ay or no, does he wish to have the funds distributed in a fair proportion among the different sects according to their numbers ? If not, why does he not avow it ? Mr. Lucas was opposed to any system of united education in Ire- land, but he could not vote for the motion before the House, because he had no security that it would be honestly carried out.

Lord NAAS argued in favour of inquiry. Sir JAMES GRAHAM, who was associated with Lord Derby in Lord Grey's Administration when the system was originally founded, could not let the debate close without addressing the House.

He was anxious to hear from Lord Naas an unequivocal declaration with reference to the pertinent question put by Mr. Lucas. Do the Opposition

desire to obtain separate grants for the Church Education Society ? If they

do not now, on a former occasion they did entertain such a wish, and did not conceal it. Who could doubt the motives of Mr. Hamilton with reference to

the proposed inquiry, when he spoke of the "phantom" of mixed education ? Mr. Lucas said he was most anxious to consider the interest of the poor in

any vote he gave. "Now, I am actuated in resisting the motion by the same motives. It is for the sake of the poor of Ireland, for the sake of the great body of the people of Ireland, that I am most sinoerely anxious that the sys- tem of mixed education should be preserved." Sir James challenged the facts of the case. There are 520,000 children being educated ; 70,000 of whom are Protestant. Mr. Lucas has said there is inconsistency in not extending the system to England : but the cases are very different. In England the Church of England are a majority, in Ireland a minority ; and there they have endeavoured to combine in one system the children of different creeds, by excluding religious teaching. As Lord Derby originally established the plan, provision was made that the instruction should be altogether secular. The Scripture extracts were subsequently introduced • and even now those extracts are not enjoined as a portion of the school teaching: the veto of the parents of any one child may exclude them from the school. Sir James thought it peculiar that the two principal promoters of the motion are both Members for an University which gives to the rich of Ireland a purely secular education, and are at the same time the most prominent persons in denying that education to the poor.

He showed that the Roman Catholic clergy desire separate grants, the laity are in favour of mixed education ; and he instanced Waterford, where Dr. Daly, the Protestant Bishop, and Dr. Foran, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Waterford, were both hostile to the founding of a model school, but the i laity desired t. There is no country in Europe where Scripture knowledge is more widely diffused tlffin in Ireland at this moment. If the system of separate grants were established, they must be made in proportion to num- bers and the smallest grant go to the Church of England, the largest to the Roman Catholics.

As something had been said about Dr. Chalmers, Sir James quoted an opinion recorded within a short period of his lamented death. "During the last few months of his life the subject of national education was much upon his mind. The following was written about a week before his death, and comes to us sealed with the impressive character of being the last formal expression of his truly enlightened judgment on any great public question. Dr. Chalmers says on this subject= I would suffer parents to select what part of education they want for their children, and would not force arith- metic upon them if all they wanted was Writing and reading; and as little would I force any part of religious instruction that was given in the school if all they wanted was secular education.' " But he had a higher authority than Dr. Chalmers—Archbishop Usher—who deplored the ignorance of the Irish people in his time ; and proposed to join with the opposite party in teaching them the main points agreed on. "And I am satisfied that were Archbishop Usher now alive, he, the Primate, would be the patron of the National School of the city of Armagh." To show that amid all these symptoms of religions difference there lurks a degree of political bitterness, Sir James told the story of a great Ulster meet- ing in 1837, when the people, led to believe that the Police were coming to take away their Bibles, came with guns to defend them ; and an anecdote of a visit paid by the Reverend Mr. Trench to a Church Education School. Mr. Trench asking whether the Scripture extracts were read in the school, re- ceived for reply, "Oh no, sir ; we are all Tories here." (Laughter.) Sir James showed, that although the population of Ireland has diminished by 2,000,000, the number of pupils has increased, even last year when emi- gration was at its height. They could have nothing more successful than a system embracing in its sphere a larger relative number of youths than are receiving the same education in any other country in Europe. Mr. Wirrrosn i m spoke warmly n behalf of inquiry. He mentioned a Church Education School, where, out of 150 children to whom the Bible was read, 55 were Roman Catholics.

Lord Joan RUSSELL said, that was a fair and open statement of the object of the motion. The Protestant clergymen wanted the power of reading the authorized version of the Bible to Catholic children : could they deny the Roman Catholics a similar right ? It was a question of maintaining the present system or abandoning it. Here the House lost its patience, and almost refused to hear Mr. Kum against the motion. Mr. FAGAN moved and Mr. CONOI.LY seconded a motion for adjournment ; but it was rejected, by 262 to 28. The House then divided on the original question—For the motion, 109; against it, 179; majority against the motion, 70.

THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT Bum.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL announced, on Tuesday, that Government in- tend to proceed with the propositions of the Budget without allowing them to be interrupted by any other Government business. (Cheers.) He thought that would take about a month ; and the President of the Board of Control would, before Whitsuntide, give notice on what day be- tween the 20th and 30th of May he intends to bring forward the mea- sure in reference to the government of India.

TRANSPORTATION.

In reply to a question from Earl GREY respecting changes in the prac- tice of transportation, the Earl of ABERDEEN said that it is impossible to send out to the Colonies all the convicts now entitled to tickets of leave, but that Government desire to fulfil the promises held out to the convicts BS far, as it is practicable.

"A system of diminution of punishment according to the deserts of in- dividuals is now under the consideration of my noble friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and I hope will be speedily adopted."

Lord GREY—" Am I to understand from the noble Earl that the arrange- ment is to discharge in this country the convicts now in those establishments who under the existing rules would have been sent abroad ? Am I to un- derstand that that is to be the arrangement ? "

Lord ABERDEEN—" On certain conditions. The subject is under consi- deration, but no decision has yet been come to."

Lord GREY professed considerable surprise.

"Without the authority of Parliament, against the consent of Parliament, and against the recorded opinion given within the last two or three years of this and the other House of Parliament, her Majesty's Government have taken it upon themselves—I venture to assert, without any sufficient neces- eity—to repeal the punishment of transportation, which for two hundred years it has bean the policy of this country to adhere to." (Loud cries of "Hear, hear!" from the Opposition benches.)

Lord ABERDEEN said that Lord Grey was under a mistake : he re- peated that no decision has been come to, and asked how Lord Grey knew that it would be necessary to come to Parliament at all ? "The noble Earl already knows the difficulty of forcing convicts upon the Co- lonies."

Lord GREY reiterated what he had said already. He argued, from the latest accounts, that the real opinion of the people of Van Diemen's Land is not opposed to transportation. The Duke of NEWCAST'LB said, whatever "the latest accounts" might say, there are official papers in course of printing which prove the very strongest opposition to any more convicts being sent to Van Diemen's Land. Lord Grey would not dispute that the strong remonstrance of the

Legislative Assembly afforded a decided indication of the views of a large portion of the colonists ; and that.feeling has increased during the last twelvemonth.

INDEPENDENCE OF TURKEY.

The Earl of Crssantsuois, in reply to a request for information, made a statement respecting the recent missions of France, Austria, and Russia, to Constantinople.

The views of the different Governments with whom he has -communicated are perfectly in harmony with ours as regards the maintenance of the inde- pendence and integrity of the Turkish empire • so that Turkey has nothing to fear if the -Sultan would be guided by ordinary prudence and would adopt a more humane policy towards his Christian subjects. Lord Stratford has great authority and long experience in Turkish affairs, and stands in a position more favourable for offering advice likely to be favourably received than any man. With respect to Austrian interference in Montenegro, Lord Clarendon considered that Austria had not infringed international law, nor done anything inconsistent with what was due from one friendly govern- ment to another. The mission of Prince Menschikoff was one to place the matter of the holy shrines on a permanent footing ; and public rumour had greatly' exaggerated the naval and military preparations of Russia. The Emperor of Russia has made no secret of his intentions, and our Government has full reliance on his word. Admiral Dundas exercised a wise discretion in not complying with the request of Colonel Rose to advance the fleet, Colonel Rose not being cognizant of the information possessed by her Ma- jesty's Government. Lord. Clarendon assured the House that the French Government are acting in entire concurrence with the British Government on Eastern affairs ; and that the sending of the French fleet to the East had not originated in nor had led to any misunderstanding between the two Governments.

Exaggerated reports had been circulated within the last few days ; but a despatch from Lord 'Stratford, dated the day after his arrival, [4th. April] stated that he had every reason -to expect that the pending questions would be brought to a satisfactory conclusion; and another despatch was received yesterday, [Sunday] stating that on the 14th instant all was quiet at Con- stantinople. In fine, Lord Clarendon assured the House that as regards Turkey, there is no danger of the peace of Europe being disturbed.

'NATIONAL POLICE.

Mr. Rim, in moving for a Select Committee to inquire into the ex- pediency of adopting a more uniform _system of Police in England and Wales' made a brief statement of facts.

The Police system introduced by Sir Robert Peel in 1829 has been found to work extremely well ; -and the recent riots at Blackburn prove how much we needs police adequate to the preservation of order without the aid of the military. The Rural Police Act of 1840 has been adopted wholly in twenty- five countries, partially in five, and not at all in twenty-two. The act lance passed to improve the parochial paid constables in districts not under the Aural Palk° Act had not adequatelymet the ease. For the want of an efficient police a vast amount of depredations go on in those districts, and the per- petrators remain undiscovered. He held in his hand a paper which was sent to him some years since by an unhappy man on the evening before his exe- cution for burglary and murder, containing the particulars of no fewer than seventy robberies in which he had been engaged within the preceding three years ; all of which, with many others unspecified, had gone unpunished. One great point to be accomplished is the separation of the judicial from the executive functions of the magistrate, with a view of efficiency, by relieving him of the immediate control anddirection of the police. Mr. Rice thought legislation necessary, on the responsibility of the Government; but all ha asked for was inquiry into the discrepancies of existing opinion and the value of the different systems in operation.

Mr. HUME, who seconded the motion, supplied anadditional fact or two. If a police is necessary, it ought to be a continuous and general police : but there are some twenty-two counties in England and six or seven in Wales which have not adopted the system. The expenditure for the maintenance of the police in England and Wales is 190,000&; and he thought it high time to inquire whether their appointanent has been beneficial or not. Mr. RICH mentioned, that in the several counties of the Three King- doms there are about 30,000 Police, but almost all, excepting the Irish Constabulary, acting under independent jurisdictions and regulations, and very often those regulations are conflicting.

Captain SCOBELL said, he does not like to see a policeman on every hill and valley. The police are repugnant to the village communities. He would rather trust to education and such means of improvement than to measures of coercion. There is more crime in Wiltshire with a rural police than in Somersetsbire without one.

Lord DUDLEY STUART objected to the establishment of a police' all over the country under the control of the Home Office. Much eulogy has been passed on the Metropolitan 'Police, which has been called the best in the world ; and, no doubt, it is so, when compared with Continental police, with their espionage and oppression. But that is not saying much. He was in favour of the rurul police in all counties.

Sir Joan PARDIGTON said, that nothing could be more unsatisfactory than the police of England at that moment : but it is a matter to be left for the Executive Government, rather than for inquiry. Lord PALMERSTON said, undoubtedly this is a matter on which Govern- ment might properly introduce a measure ; but he thought a Committee would be extremely useful. He agreed with Mr. Rice, that the county

police are superior to the local constables ; and that those who abstain from having a county police through motives of economy lose more by depredation than they save. Much inconvenience has arisen from the jealousy of small municipal bodies, who are unwilling to -surrender their little prerogatives to enable the county police to exercise their functions within their bounds.

The motion was agreed to, with an amendment, moved by Mr. MACKIE, that Scotland should be included in the inquiry.

Law REFORM, IRELAIm Mr. WurreamE has obtained leave to bring in a bill to facilitate the sale, partition, and exchange of lands by the Court of Chancery in Ire- land, and the recovery of monies secured by recognizance in the said Court. The bill, explained at great length by Mr. Whiteside, appeared to be for the purpose of-transferring the business of the Encumbered Estates Court to the Court of Chancery, and to make certain reforms in the latter. It was read a first time.

Tun AUSTRALIAN POSTAL CONTRACT SERVICE.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE inquired what arrangements have been made for the packet service with Australia, in consequence of the dissolution of the contract of the Australian Royal Mail Compan.y? Viscount CANNING, in reply, made a statement of sonic detail.

The deficiency of communication with Australia since the contract with the Royal Mail Company terminated has been overstated. There is still a

communication by means of the branch mail of the Peninsula and Oriental Mail Company from Singapore—the shortest route in existence. When the present Government came into office, they found that the revenue of the country was liable for the heavy sum of 800,0001. on account of packet ser- vices, and that all the contracts were for seven, nine, ten, or eleven years. While an official investigation was in progress, the failure of the Australian Company occurred, and Government took advantage of the opportunity to ascertain whether a more effective and economical system might not be adopted. They therefore determined to accept no more permanent or long contracts, but to invite tenders for the conveyance of one or more mails on alternate months between this country and the Australian Colonies; pre- scribing the price they would pay, and making the sole stipulation that the service should be performed in a limited time. Lord Canning apprehended no inconvenience from this course, as letters might be sent by sailing ships if it were necessary. For the last three months seventy ships a month had sailed for Australia, and many of these had -attained -a greater rate than steamers.

The Earl of HARDWICKE suggested, that the heavy contracts in exist- ence might be got rid of by paying the fines.

Earl GREY thought the experiment of the Government not unlikely to succeed. He advocated a reduction of postage on letters to the Colonies to a penny for a half-ounce letter ; the charge of Is. was prohibitory to the labouring classes. If they must carry on a very costly service by sending ships on such distant voyages, they should take care that such an increase of letters was sent as would produce a considerable sum in the way of postage ; and this could best be effected by such a reduction as he had suggested.

Viscount Carmnvo replied, that hehad taken legal opinion as to the power of Government to break the contracts by paying fines ; and he had been advised they have no such power. He reminded Lord Grey that sending letters by sea was more costly than sending them by land. Penny post- age, successful in one case, might be unfitted for the other.

IMPROVEMENTS IN NAVIGATION.

Lord Wirorrasia3r, in a long and interesting speech, described a plan for improving navigation, which originated in the United States. The plan was devised by Lieutenant Maury, the conductor of the Observatory at Washington. It consists in collecting exact observations of currents in the water and air, throughout the navigable seas. Lord Wrottesley hoped they would have the cooperation of the British Navy ; but feared that recent reports of ships recalled implied that they would not. Earl GRANVILLE said that Lord Clarendon, following up the acts of previous Ministers, had given the necessary instructions to the Treasury to carry out the plan without mutilation.

E.Lcurrosr Costsurrses.

In the case of inaresborough, where there was a double return, the Committee struck out a vote given to Mr. Westhead, and decided that Mr. Woodd and Mr. Dart were duly elected. The Beetvick-on-Tweed Committee have reported :that Mr. Stapleton and Mr. Matthew Forster were not duly elected ; and that, by their agents, Mr. Forster was guilty of bribery and Mr. Stapleton of treating.

Tau ADMIRALTY PATRONAGE COMMITTEE.

The Select Committee appointed to inquire into the exercise and in- fluence of the Admiralty patronage met on Thursday, and at once pro- ceeded to examine Sir Baldwin Walker.

He stated, that early in April 1852, Mr. Grant, and subsequently Mr. Staf- ford himself, warmly urged him not to send in submissions, as Mr. Stafford's political friends were dissatisfied ; that he refused ; and that on the 5th of .April, after a warm argument on the subject, Mr. Stafford said—" There's no use blinking the question ; Jam so pressed by Lord Derby and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I cannot help myself." The circular of 1849 was cancelled but no notice was sent to the Surveyor. When he heard of it, on the 21st, he wrote a letter tendering his resignation; and gave it to Admiral Hyde Parker, who promised to bring it before the Board. Next day, Admiral Parker asked him to meet Mr. Stafford ; and it was then agreed that Mr. Staf- ford should write a public letter clearing the character of Sir Bald- win from all imputation. During the interview, Admiral Parker held in his hand the letter of resignation. Sir Baldwin had no idea that the letter had not been officially brought before the Board; nor was he aware, when he wrote to the Board on the 26th November 1852, that it had been destroyed. He wrote to the Duke of Northumberland on the 10th May, because unjust promotions continued. On the 22d November 1852, Sir Baldwin received a note from Mr. Stafford, enclosing Admiral Berkeley's intended notice to the House respecting the correspondence between the Admiralty and the Surveyor. Mr. Stafford wished to know what it meant, as he was not aware of any corre- spondence. Sir Baldwin replied, that he could not at that time find any of the copies, being at his residence, but that he had no doubt his letters were at White- hall. On the 23d, Mr. Stafford stated in the House of Commons, that there was not any correspondence, and that the Surveyor had not tendered his resignation. In consequence of this, on the 25th, Sir Baldwin called the attention of the Board of Admiralty to his letters of the 21st April and 10th May ; and on going to the Admiralty he was told Mr. Stafford wanted to speak to him. . Stafford commenced the conversation by mentioning Sir Baldsvin's letter, and stating the answer he had given in the House of Commons. Sir Baldwin then asked him, "What could have induced him to give such answers?" Mr. Stafford replied, " What would you have me say ? " Witness answered, "Anything but what you did say." On the 27th, the Board requested him to transmit copies of his two letters; to which Sir Baldwin replied by enclosing copies, m a letter which he took himself to the Admiralty, but did not deliver as it was late on Saturday. On Monday the 29th, he saw Mr. Stafford, by appointment ; who then said he had hit on a plan of settling the affair—" Don't send the copies of the letters called for." Sir Baldwin pleaded an official request and propriety ; and went to Admiral Parker, who advised him to see the First Lord before sending them in. He did so. But, much to his surprise, the Duke of Northumberland said he had never seen nor heard of the letter tendering his resignation ; and his Grace stated, with much warmth, that had it been given to him, he should have at once taken it to Lord Derby. Sir Baldwin reminded his Grace that he had spoken to Sir Baldwin on the subject of that letter ; and on the Duke again repeating u hat he had said, Sir Baldwin told him that he held in his hand a copy of ihat letter, of which he was at Perfect liberty to make what use he tlisucht proper. About this time Ad- miral Parker entered the room, and expresad his surprise at hearing the Duke state that he had not seen or heard of the letter; upon which Admiral Parker reminded the Duke that be had put the letter into his Grace's hand.

Sir Baldwin, "much hurt mid annoyed," took away his letter and copies ; and had not been long at Somerset House before Captain Milne came, and, on the part of Mr. Stafford, begged he would not send in the copies. Sir Baldwin persisted, and placed them in the hands of Mr. Stafford : but, yield-

to Mr. Stafford's entreaties, he took them back, and again saw Captain slime; who persuaded hbn that it was of no use raking up an affair that had passed over. Being asked what interpretation he pat upon the terms "without the knowledge of the Board," he said, "there was no official minute, and I re- ceived the information from Admiral Parker." He detailed the cases of seven persons who had voted for the Government candidate and been unjustly promoted. The documents connected with these cases are missing at the Admiralty. "I was not aware of any man being promoted who had no vote." He read two letters from Admiral Parker, dated October 1852; in one of which the Admiral said—" It is too bad that everything is to be made sub- servient to party purposes." In the other he wrote— `I have been much amazed on the whole subject ; and I have told the Duke, that if I am to be held responsible for the speedy equipment of the fleet, it is quite impossible for me to do so if the appointments are made without any regard for the public service, but by private favour. So it is ; and it is really quite dis- gusting."

Sir Baldwin denied having ever taken part in politics. "I looked en- tirely to the good of the profession, and not to any political advantage what- ever."

Mr. Walter Eden was present at a conversation between Sir Baldwin and Mr. Grant, in March 1852, when Sir Baldwin refused to commence jobbing for Mr. Stafford or anybody else.

Admiral Hyde Parker corroborated the testimony of Sir Baldwin. Was not aware of the circular issued by Mr. Stafford until some time after it was issued, without the cognizance of the Board. It was a grave matter, and he remonstrated, and mentioned it to the First Lord, but did not bring it under the consideration of the Board. The First Lord was of Admiral Parker's opinion, that it was a grave matter, and disapproved of the course taken by the Secretary of the Admiralty. It was quite contrary to all prece- dent, and altogether most irregular, for the Secretary of the Admiralty to issue circulars without any minute being made to the Board, or any order being given. If it was by order of the Board, it would be minuted in the Admiralty minute-book, and without some such minute no Secretary of the Admiralty would be authorized to issue a circular.

Two clerks of the Admiralty proved that there was no minute of can- celment, and that various documents were missing.

This closed the day's proceedings. The Chairman, Lord Seymour, asked whether it would be desirable to adjourn till Saturday. Mr. Staf- ford, who had all day been taking notes, said, "I think we had better go on tomorrow, and I will be the first witness." And so it was agreed.