Debates ant Vrocetbings in Vatliament.

WA.Y8 AND MEANS.

Sir CHARLES BROKE VERE took the opportunity of going into a Committee of Ways and Means, on Monday, to defend the Saxmund- harn Agricultural Association from the charge brought against it by Mr. Gibson on Friday, that the toast of the Queen's health had been treated with disrespect : it had been worded in terms of warm loyalty, and drank with nine times nine cheers. Mr. Gmsor; observed, that thcza might be a difference between the spirit in which a toast was pro- posed and that in which it was received : there were, he had understood, some hisses when the Queen's health was given, and the marked dis- tinction in the warmth of the reception given to Queen Adelaide's health could only be meant as an insult to the Queen. Sir CHARLES BURRELL said, that it arose from special admiration of the Queen Dowager's character, and the sense of the opprobious charges to which she was subjected at the time of the Reform Bill.

The House went into Committee of Ways and Means ; and the CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER made his financial statement with respect to the mode of meeting the immediate wants. He first explained what was wanted--

The Supplies which the House had voted during the present session of Par- liament amounted to 1,727,4321.; and consisted, first, of that portion of the Miscellaneous Estimates which had not been voted in the last session of Par- liament, and of the Canada Estimates, of which part only had been voted last session ; and he had to add the Supplementary Estimates for the Ordnance, amounting to 67,7441., and a deficiency in the Ways and Means to meet the Supplies which had been voted in the last session of Parliament, amounting to 24,896!.; thus making a total of 1,727,4321., which had been voted in Com- mittee of Supply. In addition to what bad been voted in Committee of Supply, there was a charge for the interest of Exchequer Sills, for which it was necessary to provide from the Ways and Means, of 740,000/4 and this, added to the sum he had previously stated, made a total of 2,467,4324 which the House was called on to provide for.

That did not differ materially from the deficiency anticipated by Mr. Baring. The House would be already aware that he proposed funding a portion of the Unfunded Debt ; an indispensable preliminary to placing the finances of the country on an improved footing, since the burden on the country in respect of the Unfunded Debt did not depend upon the amount in the market. As long as Exchequer Bills were the only good security giving daily interest, they were in great demand, and the pre- mium was steady ; but certain banks of acknowledged credit now gave a larger amount of daily interest, and the alteration of the usury-laws had increased operations in private discounts. For this reason, and considering the number of Exchequer. Bills already in the market, he desired to reduce that amount by 2,500,000/. He proposed by the same Operation to raise 2,500,000/. to meet the deficiency. He had accord- ingly given the option of subscribing half the amount of the 5,000,0001. which he proposed to fund, to be paid in money. His proposition had been thus far quite successful; 3,540,000/. was the total amount sub- scribed for. Of course only half that sum could be in money, or it might be less. Whatever the amount of money paid in, however, above the 2,500,000/., he should devote it to meeting the deficiency ; and the remainder he would supply by the sale of Stock or Exchequer Bills, so as to leave him the power to relieve the market of not less than 2,500,000/. of Exchequer Bills. He regretted that he could not at once make special provision for the debt so created; but any measure of taxation must require more mature deliberation than Ministers had yet been able to give it—

He looked forward to that pftiod when, after looking to the receipts of the country and to the sources of the national wealth, they should be enabled to devise a mode of drawing out the resources of the revenue. He looked forward to that period when they should be enabled to take the whole case in detail, and when they would not be called on to consider the mode of dealing with the deficiencies of one year, but to consider how the whole expenditure and revenue of the country could be put on such a footing as would render them equal to each other.

Mr. Goulburn moved resolutions in accordance with the plan which he had explained. Mr. F. T. BARING generally approved of the plan proposed ; but he thought the terms ought to have included the principle of competition, so as to secure the best bargain without precluding the success of the project, which was the paramount object. And it did not appear that Mr. Goulburn had succeeded in procuring the requisite amount to be subscribed for raising 2,500,000/. to meet the deficiency and at the same time to fund 2,500,000/. of Exchequer Bills. Mr. Baring pointed with satisfaction to the fact, that after ten years of Whig rule, Mr. Goulburn could raise money upon a bonus (168. 4d.) one-third less than in 1828, when he was last Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was sur- prised that Mr. Goulburn had made no allusion to the future prospects of the country : last session, when he was accused of meaning to leave things alone, he indignantly repelled the accusation ; but now it ap- peared that he meant to do so, at least till next session.

Mr. GOULBURN reminded the House, that Lord Monteagle's attempt to fund Exchequer Bills by public competition had failed. With fixed terms, a Chancellor of the Exchequer could accept subscriptions for small sums as well as large ; while he could never treat for one or two thousand pounds by a special bargain. With respect to the bonus Mr. Spring Rice bad given no less than 31. 18s. for the West India Loan. But the fluctuations incidental to the nature of Exchequer Bills ren- dered comparisons of that kind nugatory. Mr. Goulburn denied that he had contemplated the doing nothing, or the abstaining from addi- tional taxation if necessary ; but he must first consider the state of the revenue and expenditure.

Mr. WILLIAM Winusasts deplored this resort to the ordinary spend- thrift plan of increasing the debt of the country. The Estimates for the present year amount to 18,949,000!.; in the last year of Mr. Goal- burn's administration they amounted to 15,800.000!.; and by rigid economy and a careful policy in Canada, in China, and in the Navy, they might be restored to the lesser amount. A considerable saving might be effected in the collection of the revenue. Mr. Williams con- cluded by moving an amendment, to the effect that after twenty-five years of peace it was not expedient to add to the Public Debt, but that any deficiency should be met by economy and retrenchment.

Dr. BOWRING supported the same view. Colonel Srarsunte twitted Mr. Williams with not having read a similar lesson to the late Govern- ment; and Dr. Bowring with having drawn sums of public money without the consent of Parliament.

Mr. HAWES observed, that notwithstanding Sir Robert Peel's having asked for time to mature his plans and promised that he should be guided by his own unbiased judgment, no extensive measures of finan- cial reform could be extorted from s Cabinet whose members expressed such discordant sentiments : Sir James Graham said that a fixed duty was an impossibility ; Sir George Murray proposed a small fixed duty as a small panacea for all our ills ; the Duke of Buckingham would sanction no backsliding or change of opinion, and in 1839 he declared the present law to be the best; Lord Stanley maintained the Corn-law on principles of high state policy ; Lord Eliot declared that the landlords had as good a right to the interest of their property as the holders of any other kind of stock. Sir Robert Peel had made out no sufficient ground for his delay or his reserve— Within three hours after Lord Grey had taken the Beals he was pressed for the details of his measures. On the 16th December 1783, the Ministry of Mr. Fox went out on his defeat on the India Bill: on the 19th, Mr. Pitt COMO into office; Parliament was adjourned to the 7th January following, and on the 14th January Mr. Pitt put his own bill on the table. If there ever was a Minister who more than another had found himself compelled to advocate measures of which all his previous policy indicated his disapproval, that Minis- ter was the right honourable Baronet. On this ground, therefore, he should be the last man to call for the confidence of the House and the country.

The late Government had proposed the alternative of commercial reforms or taxation, to relieve the embarrassments of the finances : the present Government fell back upon the vulgarest of all financial con- trivances, a loan ; for such Mr. Goulburn's scheme virtually was. Mr. Hawes would be glad to know distinctly, whether Sir Robert Peel claimed delay on the ground that a large and comprehensive view was to be taken of the entire Corn-law question ?

Mr. EWART and Mr. Scorr followed on the same side.

Sir ROBERT PEEL hoped he should not be accused of disrespect to the last three speakers if he adhered to his intention, and did not, to use a phrase which had fallen from Mr. Baring, give a partial " glimpse " of his mind. The present Ministers ought not to be charged, as some had charged them, with the responsibility of all expenses which they had not resisted when in Opposition. For instance in the ease of China, they had objected to the policy of Lord Melbourne's Govern- ment; but that policy being once adopted by Parliament, the then Opposition could not, without injury to their country's honour and interest, have opposed the grants which were necessary for carrying her through the contest. But whatever reductions it should be found possible to make, this Government was disposed and determined to attempt ; although there seemed very little chance that reduction could be carried to any such extent as would relieve the country to the amount of the present deficiency. With respect to the expense of collecting the revenue, it should be recollected, that at first the officers employed in collecting the revenue were paid in fees : that system was, however, abolished, and for the fees a fixed salary was substituted; and by the change the expenses were nominally increased.. He did not perceive how the expenses of that department could be reduced. It was said that the distress was increasing : he hoped it would be remembered at some distant time, by those who painted such pictures, in what state he found the country on entering office. But whilst he admitted the distress which prevailed in the cotton-districts, it was particularly desirable to avoid exaggerated accounts, which could only inflame the public mind, and do harm instead of good. He would at once state the course which he intended to pursue in that respect— It was his intention, whenever any severe cases of distress were brought tinder his notice, to institute an immediate inquiry : it was resolved that an investigation should take place into every case of alleged distress, with a view to its mitigation. In order to effect that object, he would exercise the official authority placed under the control of Government. If honourable Members opposite thought proper to deal in vague generalities, it was impossible for him to make an inquiry. He thought that nothing would tend more to reconcile the country to those who had to carry into effect the Poor-law—he alluded to the Poor-law Commissioners—than requesting them to institute an inquiry into every ease of distress.

Sir Robert mentioned an account of great distress in a particular case at Ashton, given by Mr. Hindley, which on reference to the local authorities proved to be without foundation.

Lord PanmEas.roir hoped that the country, which now learned that it was to pay two millions and a half for the gratification of having Sir Robert Peel as a Minister, would not find him dear at the money. If indeed the country had at last got a Ministry of such foresight and sagacity as to be able to equalize the expenditure and income, it must congratulate itself In the absence, however, of those qualifications, he admitted that the Ministers might ask for time to consider their mea- sures; but then, if they were still to seek upon those points, they ought lot to have made the Budget the pretext for turning the late Ministry out of office. Ile denied that the deficiency arose from the misconduct of the late Ministry : it must be remembered that in two of the great departments of public expenses, the Army and Navy, the late Govern- ment were, year after year, raged by the other party to increase instead of diminish the expenditure. If, therefore, any charge was to be made against the late Government, it was that of placing those two great and expensive establishments of the country on the footing on which the other party thought they should be placed. In those two great branches of expenditure he did not believe that the present Go- vernment could make any considerable reduction. Lord Palmerston urged a piece of advice on Ministers—

Mould Government think it consistent with the public interest to make any reduction in the Navy, he would implore them not to make it in concert with any Foreign Power whatever, but on considerations connected with the service and interests of this country alone; because nothing could be so injurious to the welfare of this country as the making of our naval force dependent upon that of any other nation whatever. Mr. FTELDEN bore testimony that distress in his part of the country had not been exaggerated in the accounts. The county-rates at Ashton-ander-Lyne, which in 1836 amounted to only 701., exceeded 5001. in 1841; and while that increased local taxation was going on, it was found impossible to raise sufficient means to support the poor. The ,millowners kept their mills at short work merely to give the people em- ployment: his own firm did so, working four hours a day ; of course not for any profit to themselves.

Mr. CHARLES WOOD criticized Mr. Goulburn's scheme; especially ob- jecting to it, that he included in his supposed resources the very esti- mates of the revenue to which he had objected in Mr. Baring's Budget. An explanation followed between Mr. Goominari, Mr. BARING, and Mr. WOOD, which is only imperfectly reported, and seems to have been unprofitable. The original resolution was then agreed to ; as well as another, that 10,000,000/. be raised by Exchequer Bills to make good the supply granted to the Crown.

POOR-LAW COMMISSION BILL.

On the order of the day for going into Committee on the Poor-law Commission Bill, on Monday, Mr. ROEBUCK was called upon by the SPEAKER to move the instruction of which he had given notice. He did not answer to his name.

Mr. R. H. YORKE then rose to move the following instruction to the Committee- " That the Commissioners be not empowered to enforce indiscriminate sepa- ration between man and wife; and that in no case shall they sanction or per- mit separation, when the application for relief shall be substantiated as arising from positive inability to obtain work, or from physical infirmity, and not from idleness, vice, or crime."

He called upon the House to enforce the injunction so warmly in- sisted upon by honourable gentlemen on the Ministerial side in June and July last, that those whom God had joined man should not put asunder. The power of the Commissioners went to snap a link which bound society together. The national stomach was hungry—("Hear, hear!" and a laugh)—a fact which was a subject for sympathy rather than ridicule and laughter : and such being the case, it was a fitting time to remove from poverty a legislative penalty. Those who had framed the Slave-Emancipation Act had taken great care that Negroes should not be removed even from one plantation to another if that re- moval caused the separation of the man from his wife, or even from the woman reputed to be his wife ; so that the reputed wife of a Negro stood in a better position than the wife of an English pauper. Sir JAMES Gael:tau would avail himself of that occasion to state the course which he intended to pursue. It was necessary, however, to approach the subject with extreme caution ; and he could not follow all who might move instructions to the Committee, lest he should gra- dually be dragged, with his eyes open, into a consideration of all the details of the general measure— The Government introduced the present bill simply for the continuance of the Poor-law Commission until the 31st July in the next year, with the view of affording to themselves and the Legislature time and opportunity carefully and cautiously to consider every portion of the important measure which had been adopted by Parliament some five or six years ago. There might be defects in that measure, which the Government were anxious to correct ; there might be omissions in it, which they were anxious to supply ; but the consideration required time and caution. 'This, to be done safely, must be done by the Exe- cutive Government on their responsibility. They did not shrink from the ar- duous task of considering and altering those defects, and supplying those omis- sions, which in their conscience and judgment they might think. existed. But, he repeated, to do this safely, time and caution were necessary ; and the in- terval they asked for consideration was not unreasonable. Last session Go- vernment brought forward a measure involving the entire question of the Poor- law system • but the labours of the session were cut short : some of the pro- posals of the Government were, on discussion, withdrawn ; others on discus- sion were adopted or amended ; and a very considerable-proportion were not deemed proper. It would be the duty of the present Government to review the whole of those proposals. To some they had already expressed their de- cided dissent; and to that opinion they would probably adhere, unless cogent reasons were adduced, such as he did not anticipate, for changing it. To those which the House had adopted the Government would give a more favourable

consideration. The other proposals, which had not yet been discussed, must conic under careful investigation ; but, on the whole, he thought the Govern- ment were entitled to call on the House not on the present occasion to discuss the Poor-law in detail.

With respect to the immediate question involved in Mr. Yorke's instruction, the separation of man and wife was no new regulation ; it had been enforced in unions under Gilbert's Act, and wherever there were large congregations of paupers, for the last fifty years.

Mr. STueicr WORTLEY hoped that Mr. Yorke would perceive that his instruction placed those who were favourable to its principle in some difficulty ; since they would dislike to vote against it, yet they could not but feel tbat the occasion of passing a mere continuance-bill was not suited to making alterations in the general measure. He thought a Government called to power under circumstances such as those in which Sir Robert Peel and his colleagues had succeeded to office, were justified in asking a short interval for the purpose of con- sidering a question which the Whig Government of 1833 and 1834 took two years to consider. To one, however, of the instructions which was to be moved, he must agree, and that was the one which restricted the Commissioners from forming any new unions : he thought that during the interval in which the measure was to be kept in suspense the prac- tical operations of the Commissioners ought to be kept as much as pos- sible in state quo. Mr. VERNON SMITH felt considerably for the embarrassment in which Mr. Wortley, hot from the hustings and declamations against the Poor- law, was placed upon being called upon to vote for Government or the amendment. Since no great measures were to be discussed this session, the Poor-law might as well be postponed with the rest. He thought, however, that Government was bound at once to state whether they were prepared to continue the Commission : Sir Robert Peel could not say that his mind was not made up on the subject, for he had con- tinually declared that the Commission ought to be continued for five years. Sir ROBERT PEEL hoped that Mr. Smith would calm his indignation, and remember that the present course was similar to that contemplated by Lord John Russell, who, deeming it impossible to proceed with the consideration of the Poor-law this year, had intended to introduce a bill for continuing the Commission for one year. Mr. JERVIS could not understand why Sir Robert should require any delay in the matter : he could not want official information, for all the information on the subject was equally open to every one. Mr PAKINGTON deprecated the acrimon7 with which the debate was carried on. With respect to the instruction before the House, he be- lieved that the regulation to which it referred was carried into effect, not only in the Gilbert Unions, but in every well-regulated workhouse throughout the kingdom. He believed that no Government ever en- joyed more of the confidence of the country than the present ; but if any thing could shake that confidence, it would be their consenting hastily to go into the discussion into which the Opposition factiously tried to force ti

Ile believed, that with respect to the Poor-law, as well as embarrassed finances and depressed trade, the country was in a very critical state : he be- lieved that the history of :b.: yz-- 1041 wn,.la he found to be a complete blank

as regarded useful legislation, and that hereafter public attention would come to be forcibly directed to this fact : but to whom would they attribute such an

extraordinary result ? Not to her Majesty's present Government. No, they would attach the cause of all this to the former Government, who, instead of giving their attention, in the last year of their holding office, to the means of removing the existing distress, had preferred to devote themselves to a desperate attempt to keep up their own power.

As to the taunt that Members on the Ministerial side of the House had made use of the Poor-law in addresses to their constituents, he would say for himself, that he never held any other language than that which he held in the House : without concurring in every act of the Com- missioners, he thought that, placed under circumstances of great diffi- culty, they had most ably discharged their duties ; and the gentry of England had performed their share of the duties devolved upon them by the law, without reference to party or political considerations. The

main object of the bill was not to save in the poor-rates ; and he hoped that next session the House would approach the subject with an anxious desire to remove deficiencies and imperfections, and to increase the material comforts of the people.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER, though not very well able, had come down to the House to support Ministers ; who, he thought, had acted wisely in proposing the simple continuance of the measure until there should be time for careful and deliberate discussion— He put it to Mr. Yorke to say whether, under the circumstances, he thought it right to press his instruction. Could he fairly, in such a state of the House and

of the country, call upon them to pass a single detail, being part of a measure in-

volving matters of so much delicacy and of such great moment as the provisions of the Poor-law Amendment Act ? He hoped that the honourable Member would be induced to look at his own proposition in this point of view—that voting for it amounted to voting that the act as it now stood required no other alteration than that which his own instruction went to effect—that, in short, every other part of the measure was unobjectionable. To Mr. Buller it appeared, that if they must take the instruction of the honourable Member for York, they ought to go into the whole of the act from the beginning to the end ; and then, with diligence, they might, by continuing their sittings till this time next year make some approach to a conclusion of the undertaking. He scarcely believed that any one of the clauses would escape : he believed that there would be amendments moved upon every line of every clause.

A word with Mr. Wortley— He thought that the honourable gentleman was perfectly consistent in the course he had taken tonight : not consistent from day to day—that was too much to expect from any man—(Laughter); nor would he say that the lan- guage of the honourable gentleman in that House was quite consistent with the language he had used in Yorkshire, because tonight he had expressed him- self in very temperate, judicious, and mild language, whereas, to his constitu-

ents in Yorkshire, he exclaimed, "so Bradlee? we will have no Bastiles after February 1842: we will not have man and wife separated after another six months." (Renewed laughter.) The honourable gentleman certainly qualified

himself in that judicious way ; but if he had not touched upon the topic in some shape of condemnation, he would not have had all the votes he had got, and they would not have had him there. The honourable gentleman was quite right in objecting to the present amendment, and to all other amendments that tended to give a permanency to the measure (for the amendment to be proposed by the honourable Member for Rochdale, which the honourable Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire supported, was of a very different character); yet Mr. Buller could not see how a gentleman who had violently declaimed against the Poor-law—who had refused to see it in any other light than that of

tyrannous law—who had denounced it as abominable, infernal, diabolical, and all that sort of thing—(Laughter)--who had talked of the " three Devil Kings "—(Laughter)—he could not see how any gentleman holding that sort of language could in consistency give a vote not merely upon the subject of any particular amendment, but for extending the infernal dominion of those three Devil Kings, and to allow the old system to revel in all its ancient dia- bolism. (Laughter.) After some further debate, the House divided ; and the instruction was rejected, by 187 to 36.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM wished Mr. Sharman Crawford to waive his right to move other instructions, and allow the bill to go into Com- mittee; but Mr. CRAWFORD would persevere ; and so the Committee was adjourned till next evening.

When the motion for going into Committee was made on Tuesday, Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD, deprecating party recriminations, rose to move the first of the instructions of which he had given notice. The demand of Government, that time should be allowed for deliberation, implied that some defects existed in the law which required amend- ment; and therefore it was but reasonable to ask, that until then the operations of the Commissioners should be suspended. The act gave absolute power to the Commissioners over the Guardians ; and by the fifty-second section particular powers were given as to the administra- tion of out-door relief. By that section the Commi,sioners were em- powered to direct "to what extent and to what purpose relief should be administered to able-bodied paupers " ; the persons, time, place, and manner in which "such out-door relief should be afforded." Now, Mr. Crawford contended, the terms of that enactment contemplated the continuance of out-door relief; and in precluding it the Commissioners had exceeded their powers. The principle of their order which forbade out-door relief seemed to be, that poverty arises from profligacy, and that therefore it ought to be punished. But at present many most honest and industrious persons are subject to distress which cannot he ascribed to their own fault; Under the existing system five great evils were prevalent,—the separation of families ; arbitrary punishment and too severe discipline ; harshness to old age ; bad food; difficulty of ob- taining admission into the workhouse ; and the mixture of the virtuous with the profligate. Mr. Crawford proceeded to illustrate these evils seriatim, at considerable length— Admitting that where great numbers are congregated together, it is not al- ways easy to avoid the separation of families, still nothing could justify the sewation of the infant from its mother, especially when she was suckling it. Mr. Crawford mentioned the case of a woman in the Bath Union, whose child, eight months old, was snatched away from her by the porter of the workhouse ; and its mother immediately left the house, that she might wean it gradually. Of excessive punishment and discipline there was an instance at Eton, where a mother was confined for thirty-two hours for visiting a sick child. At Bath, there was the case of Rebecca Collett, punished in a similar manner for an offence of a like nature. At Boo, the flogging of girls of fifteen years of age by the master, with an indecent exposure of their persons, WU already well known. At Bath, the Reverend C. F. Watts, who made the complaint with regard to Rebecca Collett, was dismissed ; and at Eton, the Honourable and Reverend S. G. Osborne was punished by a vote of censure. Of harsh treatment of old people there was a case at Crediton Workhouse, that of the two old men Lock and Dart. After the deaths of these men, an inquiry was made by the Guardians; and one of the witnesses said that he had seen them both washed, naked, in the washhouse, after Christmas—" I have seen (said that witness) Pitts draw a bucket of cold water from the cock and throw it right down over Dart ; and there was Tucker washing him down with a mop all over his body and legs. Pitts said, 'Will one bucket do?' and Tucker answered, Heave five over him, and I'll make a sodger of him.' Pitts kept heaving told water over him. Dart said, Now you are a-mind to kill me.' Dart's senses were almost gone; it was enough to kill any man in his perfect health. -Tremlett was there twice when he was washed with cold water. Leach, the Master of the Workhouse, was there when the five buckets were thrown over bun; and the answer Leach made was, 'Not too ill-usage'; and he went away. I said, 'Be can't stand this long'; and the answer Leach made was, that it would be no sin to give him laudanum to put him to sleep out of the way." Mr. Crawford next instanced the case of an old man of seventy, troubled with sciatica, who was refused the use of his own smallclothes lined with flannel, at Hillingdon. This harshness produced great repugnance to enter the workhouse ; and William Eaton, a ladies' shoemaker, and Elizabeth East, died of exhaustion from want of proper sustenance rather than enter Kensington Workhouse. The bad food at Bridgewater Workhouse was re- ported by the medical officer to have produced disease in 1836-7. The Reve- rend W. Bleeck had been compelled by an Assistant Poor-law Commissioner to resign the Chaplaincy of Pewsey Workhouse because he reported the cloth- ing to be in a disgracefully dirty condition. The difficulty of entrance to the workhouse was shown in the exclusion of Hannah Robinson, a paralytic old woman, from the Workhouse of St. George's, Hanover Square, because her husband, an industrious man who could support himself, would not enter with ,her; and sbe died from her clothes taking fire through want of proper at- tendance. Elizabeth Friry died from want at Kensington, after several appli- cations had been made to procure her admission into the workhouse. With reference to the mixture of the vicious and virtuous, the Reverend Powell Watts stated, in a letter to the Times, that two grown girls of the most im- proper character had been put with the school-children at Bath, and that no representations to that effect could procure their removal for ten days. The spirit of the people, said Mr. Crawford, was broken down by a sense of degradation ; and at the same time a spirit of outrage was engendered. The dread of disturbance introduced the Rural Police ; -a novel institution, derogatory to Englishmen, which was a practical admission that the peace of the country could not be maintained, as in the days of Alfred, by the people themselves, without the aid of a hired police. Mr. Crawford quoted a boast from the last Report of the Poor-law Commissioners, that although the last winter was long and severe, the order prohibiting out-door relief had been, with few exceptions, supported ; while such was the spirit which animated the Commissioners, they could have no disposition to allow greater licence to the Guardians. He then adverted to the Irish Poor-law, which he said was worse than the English law in many respects : the Irish bill left no discretionary power to any of the authorities, from the Com- missioners downwards, to administer out-door relief. Great severity had been exercised towards some children in the North Dublin Union ; where a cat-o'-nine-tails, which had been used to flog a boy, was con- demned as a monstrous weapon, yet no censure was passed on the

Master who had used it, and who had punished the boy's mother with solitary confinement for a whole day because she remonstrated on his cruelty. In Cork Union, in January last, it had been discovered that procuresses had entered the Workhouse as paupers, in order to pro- secute their trade there, by vitiating the young. Mr. Crawford con- cluded by moving an instruction to the Committee-

" That it shall not be lawful for the Commissioners, from the date of the passing of this bill, to declare the formation of any new Unions in districts which are not already placed under the operation of the act 4th and 5th William C. 76."

Mr. BIISFIELD FERRAND seconded the motion. He begged the in- dulgence of Members on his own side of the House while he pleaded the cause of the poor, with whom they sympathized, and the attention of Members opposite to the prescription of which he was in possession, which Sir Robert Peel would recommend for the distresses of the coun- try. The Ministerial Members had been charged with appealing to the passions of the people— Why, he bad seen at one of their elections a chimney-sweeper, with chains about his legs, representing a Negro slave; he had seen a scavenger dressed up as a Bishop ; and during the excitement of the Reform Bill, when it required some extra steam to make the people of this country believe the assertions of the Whigs, it was asserted on the hustings of the city of Westminster, that a fairer head than Adelaide's had rolled upon the block. ("No, no !" from the Opposition.) He assured them it was true. In a procession which took place in the borough of Leeds during the Reform agitation, (and be called the parti- cular attention of the honourable Member for Manchester to this,) there was painted upon one of the flags of the Whig candidates the King in petticoats and the Queen in breeches, and there was stuck in the King's neck the axe. The son of the late honourable Member for Leeds, who sat on the Ministerial side of the House during the last session of Parliament, proposed three groans for the Queen; and the sire of so worthy a son was returned.

Mr. Ferrand identified the Poor-law with the Factory system— Be believed it had originated first of all owing to the factory-labourers in Lancashire and Yorkshire being so reduced by death and disease that the cotton-spinners found it impossible to carry on their establishments with such a number of hands as they required ; and this law originated in a deep-laid design between the rich cotton-spinners of Lancashire and the Poor-law Com- missioners and Assistant-Commissioners. (" Oh, oh !" and cries of" Ques- tion ! ") He went on to denounce Mr. O'Connell, the Anti-Corn-law League, and their agitators and lecturers, for trying to set landlords and farmers against each other. If those persons had made inquiries, they would have found that the proprietors of large estates set the very best ex- ample by their conduct to their suffering poor; while the manufacturers made immense fortunes by the sweat of the labourer— There was the honourable Member for Stockport, who the other night de- clared that the Corn-laws were baptized in blood. ("Hear " from Mr. Cob- den.) He told the honourable Member, every farthing he bad gained by tire cotton-trade was died in the blood of the poor. (" Oh, oh ! ") The manu- facturers bad so glutted the market at home and abroad, that it was impossible to find the means of selling their goods; and after they had exhausted their labourers by hard labour, they cast away the poor wretches to die in misey. These unfortunate people had petitioned the men of wealth, who had risen in a few years to enormous fortunes, to hold ont the hand of charity to them; They refused charity to their victims, bat they came into that House to de- ceive them by throwing every term of obloquy on the landed proprietors. Mr. Marshall of Leeds, 'finding wages here not sufficiently low, had gone to Belgium to fit up a mill where labour was at a low price. The landowners were very well satisfied with their rents, but he doubted whether the mill-owners were satisfied with less than a thousand per cent. profit. (" Oh, oh!" and laughter.)

Mr. Ferrand quoted the report of the Committee on the Bill to Regu- late the Labour of Children in Factories, and Mr. Oastler's writings, in order to show the great mortality prevailing in the manufacturing dis- tricts. Mr. Cobden had asserted that the landlords compelled the sur- plus population to go into the manufacturing districts; but Mr. Ferrand quoted a letter by Mr. Ashworth, a Quaker manufacturer, given in the First Report of the Poor-law Commissioners in 1835, inviting the migra- tion of labourers to the manufacturing districts, as promoting an equal- ization between the high wages of those districts with wages in the agricultural districts; and a letter from Mr. R. R. Greg to Mr. Chad- wick to the same effect. Now for the remedy which was in the power of Sir Robert Peel. The Poor-law Commission, it appeared, was to be continued for six months: Sir Robert Peel had shown great anxiety to relieve the poor: the appointment of the Poor-law Commissioners was in the power of the House ; and if they did not do their duty according to the directions of Sir Robert Peel, they would soon cease to hold their posh So he would take the whole responsibility from the Commis- sioners for the next six months, and place it upon the shoulders of Sir Robert.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that no eagerness of manner or warmth of declamation should exonerate him from faithfully discharging his public duty. Conscious of that duty, he should not hastily abandon a mea- sure the importance of which he felt deeply, while he was conscien- tiously pledged to its principle. The measure before the House, how- ever, did not pledge any one to the maintenance of the Poor-law in its present state ; but without the superintending care of the Commission for the next six months, the whole management of the poor would be thrown into inextricable confusion. With respect to the local acts, as the law at present remained, no power existed to substitute the Poor-law where the Gilbert Unions Act was already in force. Sir James called upon the House to put confidence in the control which the Executive would exercise over the Commissioners, or to reject the bill before them. Within the last six weeks, the Commissioners, yielding very judiciously to public opinion, had made considerable relaxations in the law. They had formerly somewhat evaded the provision of the law which obliged them to submit every general order for the approba- tion of the Secretary of State, by issuing a number of special orders : now they had embodied the whole of these special orders in one general order, and submitted it to his predecessor ; and the time for his dis- approval having almost elapsed, the assent of the Secretary of State was to be inferred. The order involved some- important relaxations in respect to out-door relief— First, he would read the order itself—" Every able-bodied person, male or female, requiring relief from any of the said parishes, shall be relieved in the workhouse, and shall, together with such family as may be resident with him or her, and who may not be employed," &c. be resident in the workhouse- " save and except the following cases." Then followed seven most important

relaxations of the stringency of that rule. "First, when each person shall re- Having got over the difficulty of what the payment should be—for it was felt

quire relief in consequence of sudden or urgent necessity. Secondly, where such person requires relief on account of any sickness, accident, or bodily or mental infirmity affecting such person, or any of his or her family." Here was a very wide door opened to out-door relief certainly, in the case of " sickness" or any other " urgent necessity." " Thirdly, where such person requires re- lief for defraying the burial-expense of any part of his family. Fourthly, where such person, being a widow, shall be in the first six months of her widowhood, even if childless." He begged the House to observe how this was extended- " In cue such person, being a widow, shall have a legitimate child or children dependent upon her, &c. then, in that case, the widow shall, without stint or limit, receive relief out of the workhouse, and in her own home. Sixthly, when such person shall be confined in any gaol or place of safe custody." This form WSS adopted in consequence of words in the original act referring to the rule which should be adopted towards members of a family in the absence of the bead; and thus a door was opened for the relief of the wife and children in their own homes. "Lastly, where relief was required by the wife and child, or children, of any able-bodied man who shall be in the service of her Majesty as a soldier or sailor."

Sir James referred next to the case of the Irish hand-loom weavers in the manufacturing districts; whom the Commissioners, according to the letter of the law, might have sent to Ireland, but they had recom- mended work to be provided for them on the spot and not in the work- house. He called upon the House to continue its support to him, in re- sisting the introduction of amendments.

Mr. MARK PHILIPS vindicated the manufacturers from the attacks of Mr. Ferraud ; who appeared to have formed a very wrong estimate of the character of those among whom he had always lived. The fact that poor-rates in Manchester had increased in March last to double what they were in the previous March, proved that the manufacturers did not shrink from the consequences of the distress prevailing among the poor. A manufacturer told him lately, that, for the sake of his work-people, he never shortened working-time unless he was losing at the rate of 10,0001. a year ; others took 7,000/. a year as the sum. As to his own absence on the previous night, Mr. Philips explained it by say ing, that the regulation for the separation of man and wife had long existed in Manchester ; and he did not wish to imply a censure upon the old practice of the town, or hastily to vote against a principle which he thought worthy of the serious consideration of the House. Experience had pointed out alterations which might be made in the law, and he wished to see those discussed on their own merits.

Mr. WAKLEY now understood that the Whig aristocracy and the Tory aristocracy of England were pledged to the maintenance of the exist- ing law in its principles. He had been completely deceived as to the intentions of Sir Robert Peel. He had expected from the constitution of the Government that a different course would have been taken : Sir Edward Knatchbull and Lord Granville Somerset had opposed the pro- visions of the law ; Sir Frederick Pollock had evinced his sympathy with the poor ; and Sir William Follett had never pronounced an opi- nion in its favour. He did not, however, forget that Sir James Graham and Lord Stanley were among the friends of the measure. His decep- tion would make him understand his own position in the House, and teach the country the coarse which ought to be pursued. It was not so important to dwell upon particular cases of hardship, as upon the false principle of the law. The principle was this—it took away the control of the poor-fund from the rate-payers, to place it in the hands of the Commissioners. Mr. Roebuck had devised a most extraordinary re- medy for that evil—he proposed to transfer the authority from the Commissioners to the Secrectary of State. Did Mr. Roebuck expect now to get more civility from the Secretary of State than he did when he urged the claims of the Canadians. Mr. Wakley went on to con- tend that the poor had a right to relief, expressly conferred by the sta- tute of Elizabeth, in lieu of the customary relief that they formerly derived from religious houses ; and he strongly censured their being subjected to a one-sided law and an irresponsible tribunal ; asking how the aristocracy would like similar treatment. The present course he thought fraught with danger to the country— It was his belief, that if the House adhered to the law as it at present stood— if its provisions were not considerably mitigated—the country would be stained with blood. He mixed with people belonging to all classes of society; he was conversant with their opinions; and it was the belief of the great ma- jority of the country that the Poor-law was not only inhuman in its nature, hut Anti-Christian ; yes, he would repeat, it was Anti-Christian—and that it had its origin in selfishness, the most destructive feeling that could be engen- dered by the human mind. He did not believe that the Poor-law originated in a feeling of selfishness : it sprang from ignorance of the condition of the poor. Sir James Graham said that the Poor-law Commissioners had re- /axed the rigour of the law : if they saw the necessity for doing so, should not the Guardians, with all the local knowledge which they lacked, also be empowered to relax it ? Mr. Wakley suggested the course which he should recommend— He was not for the total abolition of the law ; but he thought that the in- terest of the poor was so vast, and the nation generally was so mixed up with the question of the poor, that it was advisable that a Court of Appeal should be constituted. To preside at this court, he would have a man in whose judgment and humanity he could place implicit reliance ; he would appoint a man who should be designated the "Poor-law Judge." He would also suggest the ap- pointment of a Poor-law Advocate, whose duty it should be to support before that tribunal the claims of the poor and distressed. If her most gracious Majesty had her paid advocates, he did not see why the poor should not have theirs. He hoped the honourable gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department would take this subject into his serious consideration. Mr. Wakley censured the Commissioners for complaining that the pau- per received relief as his "due," and that he did not show "gratitude" for it ; asking if any person who could use such language was fit to ad- minister relief to the poor? He objected to the size of the unions, con- taining from thirty to forty parishes, and sometimes 100,000 or 120,000 individuals. Let the House consider the effect of such an extent in administering relief, and especially medical relief. Formerly, the parish-doctor was always to be found upon the spot. Then, with re- spect to the system of tenders which medical candidates for employ- ment by the Union had to send in ; Sir Astley Cooper declared before the Committee on the Poor-laws, that it must end in the death of pau- pers. Mr. Wakley cited two cases, one of a well-qualified medical man who would not submit to make a tender, and was superseded by a tyro ; and another of a poor man who ran in debt for medical attendance, and actually offered money for it, because the Union doctor was beyond his reach. He suggested a new plan for providing medical attendance—

relaxations of the stringency of that rule. "First, when each person shall re- Having got over the difficulty of what the payment should be—for it was felt

to be a difficulty among the medical profession—what he would take the liberty of proposing to the Government was, that medical orders should be made out and placed in the hands of certain persons in every parish—say the clergyman of the parish, the churchwardens, and the overseers, and also the relieving-offi- cer ; and that a person whom the authorities admitted to be entitled to medical relief, on making application for such an order and receiving it, should then have an opportunity of taking it to any medical practitioner he might think proper—to that one residing nearest to his own home, or to that one in whose ability and attention he had the greatest confidence, and for whom he had the highest regard, and who would attend him for the sum named at the beginning of the year. Such a plan could not add to the expense of the Union, although it would give to the person an opportunity of having his choice of a medical practitioner. Mr. Wakley said in reply to Sir James Graham, that he believed the cost of that plan would be about 6s. 6d. to 9s. a head. How did the " Reformers" like the mode of electing Guardians ? He had known of 1,500 proxies being put in in one day. The framers of the Poor-law said that it was meant to increase the independence of the people : to do that, the dietary of the workhouse might be low where wages were high, but it ought not to sink below the diet of the working-man where his wages were but 6s. a week. Mr. Wakley compared the dietaries of London and Cirencester ; the former abundant, the latter the very op- posite— It had been alleged again and again, that the object of the new law was to increase the wages of the working-people ; but the Commissioners had, in districts where the labourers could scarcely exist on the small amount of wages which they received, so modelled the union-houses, and so framed the dietary tables, as to hold out no temptation to the working-man to enter the work- house. In fact, the poor man was obliged to reason thus—" I am offered 7s. per week for my labour ; if I go into the Workhouse, what I shall receive will be of the value of 2s. 6d, besides having to submit to the stringent rules of that establishment." Was there any chance, under such circumstances, of the labouriug man being raised to a state of independence, or of his condition being improved ? The law' in fact, showed a general disregard for the feelings of the poor. He hoped the House would approach the subject in a Christian spirit • and not take it up on the dogmas of the Utilitarians, who would sacrifice every thing for the purpose of squaring their principles, even to the grinding of the bones of the poor into dust wherewith to manure the soil.

Mr. WARD could not sit quietly under the imputation of being actuated in the vote which he was about to give by selfishness, or of supporting a bill conceived in the spirit of wickedness. Such was the imputation conveyed by Mr. Wakley, in language as audacious as his political acts were cowardly ; for he did not sustain by his votes the sentiments con- tained in his speeches. Mr. Ward's opinions were not formed in the closet, any more than Mr. Wakley's-

He had mixed much with the agricultural classes, and represented a manu- facturing population ; and he could state that the general feeling of last year WWI, that the House ought not by crude and hasty legislation—to use a phrase of the honourable Member for Finsbury—spoil a bill which was admitted to be the best legislative measure that had been passed since the Reform Act. He had discussed the question respecting local responsibility with three Poor-law Guardians, who were clever and intelligent men; and their reply was, "For God's sake, do not impose any responsibility on us; we do not wish for it ; the task of administeriug the law is sufficiently difficult. We have now a fixed principle to enforce, and our way is clear enough ; but responsibility would cloud it." One of them added, with very little reverence for the opiniou of the honourable Member for Finsbury, "If every Board of Guardians had full power with respect to every part of the law, we should have a Mr. Wakley at every Board."

Mr. Ward would cordially support the course taken by Government, in the hope that next year the subject would be discussed in a calmer and fitter spirit.

The House divided ; when the instruction was rejected, by 131 to 49. Mr. CRA.WFORD then moved as another instruction to the Com- mittee— " That they have power to make provision in the bill, that it shall not be lawful for the Commissioners to disallow, by any general or other order, any payments which shall be made by the authority of a Board of Guardians for the relief of any poor persons or their families out of the workhouse, notwithstand- ing any powers given to them by the act 4 and 5 Will. 4, c. 76, to the contrary," This afforded an opportunity to Mr. Wara..ev to reply to Mr. Ward; upon whom he retorted the charge of cowardice, referring to his flight when Mr. Crawford moved his amendment to the address. Mr. WARD regretted if he had used language too strong ; but he had nothing to apologize for or retract in his conduct on Mr. Cravrford's amendment to the Address. The instruction was rejected, by 146 to 32. The Hoarse then went into Committee on the bill.

On the bringing up of the report of the bill, on Wednesday, Mr. WAKLEY asked whether Mr. Ward was prepared to state the name and address of the Guardian with whom he had held the conversation which he repeated on Tuesday night. Mr. WARD did not feel warranted in doing so.

Mr. WAR.LEY expressed strong indignation— If the House thought fit that Members should state conversations which they had held with parties those conversations involving calumnies of the most atrocious kind against other Members of the House, he was content to yield to such a species of warfare. If he was to be attacked by unfair weapons, and the use of them was considered quite correct, lawful, and Parliamentary, he presumed he would be admitted to defend himself with weapons of a similar description. He considered the matter, however, of so much importance, that, without entertaining any enmity or hostility to the honourable Member— as he trusted he should always be enabled to conduct himself without enter- taining such feelings towards a political opponent—he sheuld feel it his duty to sift the matter to the bottom. He felt it due to the character of the House to do so. It was a matter of safety and security with regard to honourable Mem- bers. If conversations of the kind he referred to were to be related in that House by persons under no responsibility, he should like to know what was the protection for individual character? Mr. WARD was rising to reply, when he was interrupted by the SPEAKER, who told Mr. Wakley that he was out of order in referring to what had occurred in a former debate. Mr. Wean, however, was suffered to put in a few words. He disclaimed having had any thing to do with " calumny "— There was nothing calumnious in the expression of an opinion, on the part of a member of a Board of Guardians who had seen the warm and violent speeches made by the honourable Member for Finsbury upon the Poor-law—that he felt great horror at having the interpretation of the New Poor-law left to Boards of Cuardians, when they might have a Mr. Wakley at every board putting his own interpretation on those principles, and forcing others to adopt it by raising an outcry against them if they did not, and denouncing them for inhumanity.

Mr. WAILLEY complained that Mr. Ward had not repeated all the words which he used on Tuesday ; when the SPEARER again checked the breach of order; upon which Mr. WAKLEY held his peace, merely observing—" Then I do not know how a Member is ever to get an ex- planation."

DISTRESS IN BOLTON.

On Thursday, Dr. BOWRLNG moved for copies of the correspondence

between the Home Office and the Poor-law Commissioners on the sub- ject of the distress in Bolton ; with the report of the Assistant-Commis- sioner sent by Government to inquire into alleged cases of destitution and death, referred to in debates in Parliament during the present ses- sion. In the debate on the Address, Dr. Bowring, to illustrate the destitution of the people at Bolton, had mentioned a man who died at his loom. The report of the Assistant-Commissioner went to show that there was some inaccuracy in the Doctor's account; and he now en- tered into an explanation. When he was in Bolton, he heard many harrowing tales of distress ; and assisted by some gentlemen who knew the place, he went from house to house and made a searching inquiry. A Mr. Naseby informed him of the death of the man Pearce. Some of the Jury which sat on the body told Mr. Naseby that their verdict wa "Died from want of food" ; but in point of fact the Jury returned no verdict. That was the only important inaccuracy in the statement. A neighbour had proved that the man was in such want, that he took rotten potatoes off a dust-hole ; and it was want that brought on the long sickness of which he died. The general accuracy of Dr. Bow- ring's representations had been put to the vote at a public meeting in Bolton on Friday, and confirmed by acclamation. Dr. Bowring went on to impugn Sir Robert Peel's inference of increasing prosperity from the increased deposits in savings-banks ; and he showed from the re- turn of a very well-conducted bank at Exeter, that domestic servants and people connected with trade were the principal depositors, both in respect of numbers and amount of money : only one in ten of the de- positors in that bank belonged to the working class. Dr. Bowring, on the other hand, quoted the return of the Registrar-General to show that in the three years ending 1840, while the mortality in London had decreased 16 per cent., in the country generally it had increased 4, and in the manufacturing districts 40 per cent. The SPEAKER having taken objection to the papers moved for, that they referred to former debates in the House, Sir JANES GRAHAM sug- gested an amendment to the motion—that e.rtracts only should be re- quired in order to omit the passages which involved the technical objection. At the same time, he remarked, that if such caution was to be observed in giving answers to previous statements, Members should be as careful as they could to ascertain the accuracy of statements which

they brought before the House. If Members would transmit to him their statements of cases of suffering in writing, he would take care that they should be investigated. With respect to the death of Pearce, there was so little case for an inquest, that the Coroner for the borough

refused to hold one, though the Coroner for the county was not so scru- pulous. The wife of Pearce had told Mr. Mott, the Assistant-Com- missioner, that he died a year and a half ago, and that he had been ill eighteen weeks, being sixty-five years of age; he had plenty of work when he was well, and worked at intervals when he was ill; and she and her daughters were in full work at the time, and earned, not 4s., as Dr. Bowring had said, but 98. 6d. At Christmas last, a Committee was formed among the rate-payers to ascertain and report cases of distress. The relieving-officer, whose allegation was confirmed by Mr. Mott's inquiries, said that of three hundred statements made by the Committee not one was correct. One woman confessed to Mr. Mott that she had told an untruth. Mr. Mott said, that these cases had been got up for the purposes of an Anti-Corn-law meeting which was about to be held ; and they had been reproduced, added Sir James Graham, in Parliament, as subsidiary to a movement against the Corn-laws.

Sir ROBERT PEEL, fully admitting the existing distress, repeated Sir James Graham's caution against exaggerated statements ; and he rebuked Dr. Bowring for having overlooked the fact stated in the Registrar-General's Report, that there had been a decrease of mortality in some of the most central parts of the manufacturing districts, as Manchester, Salford, Ashton, Oldham, Stockport, and Leeds. Referring to Mr. Cobden's reproach in a former debate, that he had only quoted the savings-bank returns for the present year, Sir Robert now brought forward returns of the Manchester and Stockport banks for four years ending 1840, and proved that in those years the deposits had exceeded the withdrawals in amount, while the number of depositors had steadily increased. In the same debate—

Mr. GIBSON called Sir Robert Peel to order for referring to a former debate : he was attacking persons who had no opportunity of answering. Lord Stanley had very justly stated, that if there was one Member in that House who could better than any other dress up a case for a pre- sent and temporary purpose, it was Sir Robert. He should give notice to those whore he attacked, that they might be prepared to meet him. Sir ROBERT PEEL had not referred to former debates for purposes of argument, but to make an explanation which he felt to be his duty. In the same debate, Mr. Gibson said that there were thousands in Man- chester suffering from typhus, from want of sufficient food. Now the returns of the Fever Hospital in that town, for the last five years, proved that the cases of fever had decreased from 799 in the year ending June 1837, and 1,372 in 1838 to 691 in 1841. Sir Robert was surprised that a Minister of the Crown should be prevented from giving explanations to disabuse the public mind of false impressions.

Mr. GIBSON explained, that he used the word "thousands" idioma- tically, to mean a great number; and that be had made a technical mis- take in speaking of typhus when he meant typhoid fever ; a class of disease usually brought on by want of food; but not being contagious, eases of the kind are not generally sent to the Fever Hospital.

Mr. COBDEN thought that the increase in the account of the Map- cheste.r Savings Bank was owing to the increase in the number of its branches.

After some further resultless discussion, the matter dropped. Dr. BOwring's motion, in its amended form, was agreed to. Ecturrv Conwrs.

On the order of the day being moved for the third reading of the Administration of Justice (No. 2) Bill, on Tuesday, Mr. WARD drew attention to a ease which added strength to the arguments against com- pensation being given to Mr. Scarlett for the loss of his office in the Exchequer Court— In 1832, Mr. William Brougham was appointed Registrar of Affidavits to the Court of Chancery—an office which the Lord Chancellor had expressed some intention of abolishing, without mentioning any definite period No distinct proposition had been made, however—no bill brought in—nothing had been done to give the public a claim to the abolition of the office. The mo- ment the appointment was known, the honourable and learned Member for Ripon, now Lord Chancellor of Ireland, lost not a moment in calling the at- tention of the House to it. He then sat on the Opposition-benches ; and that might account for the different views which were taken then and now of similar cases. The honourable Member for Ripon then complained of an ap- pointment being made to a sinecure office, which was to be abolished. He said that the honourable Members on the Ministerial side, who were formerly severe in their comments on such proceedings, appeared to have no objection then, when the money was received by different persons. On the same occasion, Sir Robert Peel said it was impossible that the appointment could be other than provisional ; and the present Chancellor of' the Exchequer, from whom it was so difficult to extract an opinion the other night, expressed a similar opinion, in the guarded terms which he always used. The place to which Mr. William Brougham had been appointed was not, as had been asserted, a sinecure : Lord Eldon asserted that it was an office to which duties were attached that required it to be filled up immediately. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the case bore but feebly upon that before the House— Lord Brougham, who was at the time Chancellor, had given notice in the House of Lords of his intention to bring forward a bill to abolish that particular office to which he had appointed his brother, and which it had been stated in the House of Commons was a sinecure. On the other hand, Lord Abinger was no party to the arrangement in contemplation at the period of the appoint- ment which he made. Be was not, therefore, in making that appointment, violating his own sense of what was due to the public service ; while it had been admitted by all that the office of Master of the Court of Exchequer was one which could not be left vacant, and the duties of which it was essential to

have properly discharged.

Mr. Goulburn announced his intention of introducing a clause to give remuneration to officers of the Court of Chancery to whom the duties of the officers of the Exchequer Court would be transferred.

Mr. &taxa supported the claim to compensation, as a liberal course should be adopted to vested interests ; and on the same ground he urged compensation to certain copying-clerks, some of whom bad been en- gaged for thirty years. Sir JAMES Guanalt could not admit that claim; but if the clerks pressed their services in due time, he had reason to believe that they would not be rejected. The ArroaNny-Grarnner. said that the right to compensation must rest strictly on the legal right to hold the office.

The bill was read a third time, and passed.

PR/SON DISCIPLINE.

On Monday, Lord BROUGHAM called the Lords' attention to the state of prison-discipline throughout the kingdom. Very extensive and very valuable improvements had been made in the system formerly pur- sued, by the bill introduced by Sir Robert Peel in 1825, and also by that passed ten years afterwards in accordance with the suggestions of a Com- mittee over which the Duke of Richmond had presided; but there were still many abuses existing which required immediate remedy. Under the latter measure, four Inspectors had been appointed, whose duty it was to visit the prisons regularly, and to report annually the results of their experience. That practice had been attended with great advantage ; for not only was much important imformation obtained, but in many in- stances the publicity given to complaints had succeeded in removing the causes which had led to them. This had not, however, been uniformly the case. The recent imprisonment at Rochdale of several persons under a long obsolete act, for non-attendance at Divine service, called for a searching inquiry. The defence of the Magistrates, that the persons, under the law against not attending church on Sunday were really punished for something else, was an aggravation instead of being an ex- cuse. He had been informed that the informations had been laid against these persons by a Magistrate ; and inquiry should be made into the subject at the Home Department, whether this was the fact or not He had before observed that the Justices were not to blame in this mat- ter ; for if an information was laid before them and proved, the law was imperative and they must act upon it: but if it were found that one Justice had laid these informations before other Justices, for the purpose of having this law carried out, the execution of which was im- perative upon them, then he would say that the Magistrate laying the information was not without blame. There was the greatest variety of treatment in different prisons. The complaint most frequently made by the Inspectors of Prisons was that the diet was too low for persons condemned to hard labour. One prison in particular was mentioned, where the diet was so low that many of the prisoners were suffering from a disease which, he believed, was now almost peculiar to that prison, although at one time it had been very prevalent in this coun- try—the land-scurvy. In that prison the diet was evidently too low, the proportion of persons in the hospital being ten out of fifty. One of the practices he complained of was allowing the gaoler to provide a great many articles. In most cases the chaplains did their duty well; but there were many exceptions, and it was remarkable that these oc- curred where the prisons were most numerously filled and the salaries of the chaplains most ample. There was the greatest variety in the number of punishments for breaches of prison-discipline ; the extreme difference in the proportionate number of punishments being as great as 27 to 1. Lord Brougham animadverted on the confining untried prisoners with convicts, and subjecting the former to the prison-dress. He dwelt on the case of a person who had been committed for trial, and was called up by the keeper and told that he had been sum- marily convicted and sentenced to twelve months' imprisonment. Lord Brougham thought that the Home Office ought not to be without a solicitor, and that Mr. Vizard ought not to have resigned his office. He concluded with moving an address to the Queen, praying her to direct that at the commencement of every session of Parliament there should be laid on the table of both Houses a report of the proceedings that had taken place, founded on the report of the Inspectors of Prisons for the previous year.

The Duke of WELLINGTON, without going into the details which had been specified, fully concurred in the objects of the motion, and pro- mised inquiry into all cases which appeared particularly to require it. The motion was accordingly agreed to.

BRIBERY AT THE GENERAL ELECTION.

Lord Baouauere stated, on Thursday, the course which he should pursue in reference to the excessive bribery and corruption at the last General Election. He had minutely investigated a number of cases ; and from the information he had been thus enabled to collect, he could state that these debasing practices were confined to no one of the three great parties into which the representation was divided. The supporters of the Government and those of the Opposition were equally tainted ; while those who formed the third section were remarkable as having been more lavish in bribery than either of the two others. This flood of corruption was not to be attributed to the Reform Bill, the operation of which had greatly decreased the amount of all legal expenses of elections: the fault rested with the Parliament, which had not insti- tuted inquiry into the subject. The researches he had made convinced him that such an inquiry could be entered upon by their Lordships without any infringement upon the privileges of the other House ; and although the short time to which the present session would extend, and the multitude of election-petitions now pending, (no fewer than eighty,) would render a measure inexpedient at present, he should move for a Committee of Inquiry next session.

MISCELLANEOUS. NEW MEMBER. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN took his seat in the House of Commons, for Ripon, on Wednesday.

NEW Warm On the motion of Mr. Tama's, on Monday, a new writ was ordered to issue for the city and borough of Hereford, in the room of Mr. Henry Hobhouse, who had accepted the office of Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds.

A New Writ was ordered to issue on Thursday, for the election of a Member for Wilton, in the room of Lord Fitzharris, now Earl of Malmesbury.

PRIVATE BLLLS. On Monday, Mr. GREENE moved the following resolution ; which was agreed to-

" That all Standing Orders regulating the practice of this House and of the Private Bill Office with reference to estate and name bills, be, daring the present session, suspended. That all such bills be, after a second reading, re- ferred to a Select Committee. That such Committee do consist of the follow- ing Members—Mr. Greene, Mr. Estcourt, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. T. Egerton, and Bft. Walker. That three be a quorum. That it be an instruction to such Committee, to inquire whether there be any standing orders applying to such bills; and if so, whether they have been complied with; and that they do report the same officially to the House. That such Committee have power to report on the day on which they sit. That such bills be permitted to proceed de die in diem through all their other stages."

IMPORT-DUTIES. Mr. EWART gave notice of a resolution to be moved next session, "That the principles laid down in the Report of a Com- mittee appointed in the last Parliament to inquire into the Import-duties and their effect upon commerce, are of essential importance to the trade, employment, and subsistence of the people of this country ; and that they ought to be adopted and acted upon by any Government which seeks to enjoy the confidence of the country."

TRADE WITH Java. Mr. P. M. STEWART gave notice, that in the next session he should call the attention of the House to the state of our commercial relations with Java.

Comi-Lsws. On Tuesday, Mr. THORNELY gave notice, on behalf -of Mr. Villiers, that early in the next session Mr. Villiers would bring under the consideration of the House the act 9th George IV. relating to the chilies on foreign grain.

CONVEYANCE OF SCOTCH PROPERTY. On Wednesday, Dr. BOWRING gave notice for Mr. WALLACE, that he would next session ask leave to bring in a bill to simplify the conveyance of hereditary property in Scotland, according to the recommendation of the Third and Fourth Reports of the Scotch Law Commissioners, and to expedite business in the Sheriff-Courts in Scotland.

NaviasTroar ACTS. Mr. LYALL gave notice on Thursday, that on an early day he should move for a Select Committee to inquire into what had been the effect on trade, navigation, and commerce, re- sulting from the alteration in the Navigation Acts, with a view to their modification ; and also to take into consideration how far it was practi- cable and prudent to adopt any ant what measures to enable the ship- ping of this country to enter into competition with the shipping of other nations.

SAVINGS BANKS. Mr. WILLIAMS gave notice, that early next session he should move for leave to bring in a bill to repeal an act passed in the 9th year of George IV. relative to Savings-Banks, so far as to pre- vent the amount placed in savings-banks from being applied to the purchase of Exchequer Bills, to be afterwards converted into Three per cent. Annuities, without the authority of Parliament, thereby hazarding the great probable loss of the deposits in those banks. The Casa- OELLOR of the EXCHEQUER took objection to the insertion of an argu- ment in a notice ; and the last few words were struck out.

THE HOIFSES OF PARLIAMENT AND FINE ARTS. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, in answer to Mr. HAWES, that a Royal Commission would be issued to inquire how far the erection of the two Houses of Parliament could be made conducive to the advancement of the fine arts. A Royal Commission could sit during the recess, which a joint Committee of the two Houses could not do ; but he proposed to invite to the Com- mission not only members of the Legislature, but others who were eminent for their knowledge and taste upon subjects of art ; and Prince Albert had consented to give his attendeuce, for the purpose of rendering as complete as possible a structure which formed part of the Queen's ancient Palace of Westminster Hall. He did not intend to suggest, for any of the members of the Commission, any other reward than the satisfaction which he was sure they would derive from the opportunity of contributing to the advancement of the fine arts.

Re Mr. M'Lroa's Casa. Sir CHARLES NAPIER expressed a hope that Parliament would not be prorogued before means had been to protect Mr. M•Leod, whose trial was to commence on the 15th of this month. Sir ROBERT PEEL could give no assurance on the subject. Mr. YORKS repeated Sir Charles's wish, but procured no farther answer.

TDIBER-DUTIES. A petition was presented by Lord SANDON, on Tuesday, signed by 9,000 of the residents of Quebec, complaining of the proposition made by the late Government of an alteration in the duties on timber, as calculated to bring ruin not only upon the timber- trade, but on all the other interests of Canada ; and praying that the House would not sanction such a course, especially as those interested had no opportunity afforded to them of producing evidence of the inju- rious effects which the proposed measure was calculated to produce.