Debates an Vrombings in' iparliament.

NATIONAL EDUCATION.

The House of Commons resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, on Monday, Mr. BERNAL in the chair ; and then Lord Join.: RUSSELL rose to move a resolution, "That it is the opi- nion of this Committee that a suns, not exceeding .30,000/., be granted to her Majesty for Public Education in Great Britain in the year 1839. Lord John did not think it necessary to reopen the general subject of education, after the long debate on the question before the Speaker.left the chair. He professed himself unable to see any force in the objec- tion which some urged to the grant of money, that it was to be placed at the disposal of a Board of Privy Councillors instead of a Board of the Treasury. Ile could have seen some force in an objection directed against a removal of the control from the Privy Council to the fre.a- sury ; for it might be said that the Treasury, being fully occupied with other duties, would not have time to attend to this ; and be could .under- stand the argument that the State ought not to encourage education not ioanded on the peculiar doctrines of the Church of England : but to oppose the grant because members of the Privy Council were to super- intend its distribution, appeared to him most unreasonable. He begged to remind the House, that the difficulties now raised originated many

The British and Foreign School Society, founded by Joseph years ago.

Lancaster, a Quaker, and chiefly supported by Dissenters, but patronized by George the Third and the Duke of Kent, had always stood apart from the Society subsequently established by Churchmen ; although an attempt was made, through the mediation of the Duke of Kent with the Archbishop of Canterbury, to produce cooperation between the British and Foreign Society and the National Society. The Arch- bishop of Canterbury said, that one of the rules of the National So- ciety was, that all children should be instructed in the Liturgy and Catechism of the Established Church ; therefore the Lancasterian sys- tem could not be adopted. The two Societies had continued to hold a distinct course to the present time. It was intended that the Privy Council should, as heretofore, give the greater portion of the funds voted by Parliament to these two Societies; hut they would not refuse applications from poor and populous districts where instruction was much needed, nor make it an absolute condition of assistance that the schools should be in connexion with either of the two Societies. He thought that the best principle was, that in the week days the Scrip- tures should be taught, and peculiar doctrines on Sundays, by the re- spective teachers of different sects : but what gentlemen opposite aimed at was, to preveut assistance from the State to any system which did not enforce instruction in the tenets of the Established Church. Such was the object of many of his opponents though he did not suppose it was that of Sir Robert Peel or Lord Stanley. A lecture on the danger of "open questions" had been read to him by Sir Hobert Peel, who had considerable experience on the subject ; but he really thought it better at once to avow the existence of a difference of opinion, than attempt to pin an unanimous vote on some incidental matter with a view to conceal that variance of opinion. Now, he conceived that there was a very great difference between the opinions on the subject of education held by Lord Ashley and Mr. Gladstone on the one hand, and those ex- pressed by Lord Stanley and Sir Robert Peel on the other, and that in order to act together they were compelled to make education "an open question." The real question, however, was, whether the whole educa- cation of the country should be placed in the hands of the Established Clergy, or whether that liberty of education approved of by George the Third and the Duke of Kent should be maintained by the House.

Lord MAitox lilt it his duty to meet the question with a direct nega- tive. He maintained that the sentiments entertained on his side of the House had been grossly misrepresented by Lord John Russell. To prove which, Lord John had only to move a grant even for a larger sum than had been voted during late years to the National and the British and Foreign School Society ; for then it would be seen, that although a large portion of the amount went to aid schools not in connexion with the Establishment, that motion would receive the unanimous support of the Couservatives. The objection to the present motion was, that it would support a scheme which contained the means of reviving the plan of the 11th of April, which Ministers professed to have abandoned. There was no security that that scheme would not be revived. It would be forced upon an unwilling people ; and the experience of Joseph the Second proved the itnpolicy of attempting to force reforms good in themselves upon a reluctant population. Lord Mahon referred to the failure of the attempt in Prussia and in Switzerland to educate children of different religious opinions together ; and he strongly recommended adherence to the plan, which had been found to work well in this country, of aiding the National Society and the British and Foreign School Society, and no others.

Mr. BAINES denied that there was the least reason to apprehend that Government would attempt to enforce the system which, in compliance

with the expressed wishes of the country, they had relinquished; and he called upon the House to remember, that almost all the petitions presented were against the former and surrendered scheme, not against that which they were now asked to support.

Lord Tmosstotoro thought that the assistance of the State ought to be limited to schools in connexion with the Church. He objected to the British and Foreign School Society, as not affording sufficient guarantee for the right distribution of the money given it. There was nothing to prevent the Socinian versions of the Bible from being introduced into their schools,

Mr. LANGDALE said, that Lord Teignmouth's principles would lead him to repeal the Catholic Relief Act, and restore the penal laws. Mr. LITTON protested against a scheme which professed to encou- rage all religions, but which would really promote Infidelity. He be- lieved that Ministers would go as fint as they dared to lessen the power and lower the dignity of the Establishment. Mr. MORGAN JOHN O'CONNELL complained that the Tories would allow the benefits of education to all sects except the Roman Catholics. Why, if they really believed in the truth of their own doctrines, should they so much dread the approach of a proselytizing priest ? He urged Ministers to adhere to their plan. Mr. CRESSWELL objected to a mode of proceeding which deprived the House of Lords of the power of interfering in so important a ques- tion. It was said that religious liberty was upheld by the Govermuent scheme; but did religious freedom mean that persons of all religions were to go into schools supported by the Government, and demand education at the expense of the Government ?-

It might as well be said that any man might go into the places of worship

supported by the State, and there demand that I .t. • I f f

his own pat ar forum o

w(riship shoilld be carried on. He presumed to judge of lio man—he would n ct injury upon no man for his religious opiniLs; but then, he said, let him not be oiled upon to pay for it. Let him not be called upon to pay for that which he believed to be erroneous. (Cheers from the. Ministerial benches.) Let every man have the enjoyment of his own creed, let him worship as he pleased; hut he begged that he might not be called upon to contribute to the propagation of error. If he were called upon to give his vote for that which believed to be erroneous, then his reply was, that Ile would 'ire most cer- tainly his vote apinst it. (Cheers f)•ont the 3.1"iniste benchet ) Ile could limit understand those cheers; was It that honou.ratle gentleMen opposite supposed that he sail any thin,g absurd, as if he had declared that he would not support that which he believed to be true, and oppose that which he believed to be false ? He denied that it was violating the consciences of Roman Catholics or Sociuiaus in taking from them their money to support the Esta- blished Church : it would not be violating his conscience in taking front him his money to support this plan ; but it would be a violation of his conscience if he voted for it. (Cheers and laughter.) The members of the Society of Friends objected to make war, but were their consciences violated in taking from them taxes which went to support the war ?

He denied that the combined plan of education had succeeded in Liverpool— He found, by a return %mulled to him, that the number of children belong- inir' to the Church of England was 8,957, of different other persuasions 3,098, ofSoeinians 304, making a total of 12,359 ; while the numlitc utehildren edu- cated belonging to the Roman Catholic persuasion ..vas 1,200. Of these, many were educated by the Homan Catholic priests, in their own schools exclusively. llow, then, could it he said that the combined plan was introduced into Liver- pool ‘vith complete ,uccess?

3Ir. VERNON Sjcii said, it was the common p met ice of the House of Commons to Vote sums of money without the ettoseut of the other House of Parliannon ; so that there was nothing monstrous or novel in the course now prcposed. Ile was aware that it was intended. to fight this question inch by inch; bat it must be allowed on the other side, that though five was a scanty mojority, one ineli at least had been gained when the I lause sanctioned the Order in Coanyil, which e- opposite strove to rescind. He admitted th he at t foemer plums had

been abandoned Is!eause it was unpopular—it had been alquoloned for

the present : but i'measure befbre the I loose was only temporary. As for the tweten. th..t the money voted NVI !Uhl lie.11111.1iell to the exe- cution of the sell, ete ,sltich Government had surcendered, it ninst ap- pear groundless, when it was remembered that Parliament could See to the appropriation or every sixpence.

Sir GEouGE CLEAR protestetl against the exteosion of the Govern- ment scheme to S..otland ; which might be effected under a resolution declaring that the ;,.,rant was to be ap:ilied to public education in Great Britain.

Mr. SREIL read a letter from Mr. Rathbone, and quoted passages from a pamphlet written by ;Mr. Blackburne of Liverpool, to show, in opposition to M... Cresswell, that the combined plan of education " worked admirably " (Mr. Rathbone's expression) io that town. Mr. Shell proceed,d. to argue against the injostice, impoliyy, and, now that the political ilisabilities of the Catholics had been removed, the in- consistency of denying to Catholic children the benefit of education by the State. He pointed to the differences of opinion among the Opposition on this subject ; aid reminded Lord Franeis Egerton, that be had pro- posed to vote 25;,000/. for the maintenance of the Catholic clergy, though now he ry':used a small share of the small sum of 30,000/. for the education of Catholic children. He taunted the Opposition with their nervous dread of attacks upon their Established C'hurch-

" I protest, Sir, t think that the Member for Newark, with all Is line

subtlety, will finil tame difficult to reconcile principles as a Churchman with Ins conduct as a statesman, than lie has fmnid it to reconcile in his cele- brated work the right of private judgment with passive obedience to the Chundt. Sir, 1 ent. Jain ftw the honourable gentleman that respect which is due to his indisputw le talent and to his umplcsiioned worth; but I own, that after having perils, t a work of which 1 in great Fla approve as redolent of Catholicism,—a woek dedicated to the Cul% cesiiy of Oxford, which, he said, had been for a thousand years the tried awl proved guarditto of relon, (what an inferenee from that -vast cycle of time most be derived!)—after baying read a %rork in which the Cottrell of 'England is represented as a continuity, through the medium of apot.tolieal succession, of the great primitive establishment— after haying perused a book in which, even to the Scotch Synod, very few, if any, of the incidents to a church are conceded—after, I say, having read all this, I Was not a little !apprised to bear the honourable gentleman pronounce a panegyric on the prysclytes of John Wesley, who have separated themselves by boundaries the most marked femn the Church, who have disclaimed. the autho- rity of your Iiisbor, instituted an orilinatioo of t bsi r mmvii, established not only an alien, but a hostile organization of their priesthood. You have inure rea- son to dread them than us. Why are you fin ever, in reference to Popery, crying outthat.your Church is in danger, and giving way to the most fantastic fears ? What m the world makes you so much afraid ? Why do you not, as you resemble us in 60 many other regards, in our fearlessness and security, follow our example? It was in retiTence to our Church that your fiunous Dryden excltimed-

t Without unspotted, innocent within,

Slat feared nu danger. I. she knew no sin.'

Surely your consei..usness is not the source of your dismay ? You have no- thing to fear, armed as you are, I presume, in iniasasice, Emu any cause, touch less from the education of the unhappy Popish poor? Your Church, your Anglican Church, (for T can scarce call it Protest itio,) is inemporated with the State; it is supported by the interests of' the higher orders and the faith of the humble classes; in the worst 01 Courts rind Ea,lial malts it lifts its in itied head; ' it possesses vast revenues ; it rules over tl:e two most litmous skies in the world ; it presides over the great patriciao seminaries of the land ; it has retained all the pomp, pride, and glorious circumstance of the 17stab1ish- ment of' which it is a perpetuation—Archbishop:, Ilislegis, l)eans Cathedrals, Chapters, Golden Stalls ; it is distinguished In a prebtoy eminent 'for learniv, and what is more important, bv the ,ictiyity it an.1 spirit of organized confederacy amonga the parochial clergy. iieii is your I lii viii mcmii ; and can you bring yoursedves to believe that such a Wok, losed till the national belief, and towering amidst aristocratic sustainment, can he subverted --tiot by foreign invasion, not by inty.tine commotion, no; by a great moral concu.,,ion—but can be prostrated 011 the rock of truth on which you believe if to be raised, by a dis- charge of Douay Testaments and Popish Ilissals—hv a set of sit:ides, shirtless Popish -paupers, gathered, under the command of the Privy Council. 'from the lanes of Liverpool, the allies ot' Manchester awl of Salliord, or t he receptacles of St. Giles's? These fears, this ague of apprehensiou for satin Chlrelt, is ;ilk, amid would be ridiculous, but for the fittal results •viiieh It le educes ant' tlw con- stant injustice ii liii It it work's. It stops the progretet of national impreventent ; and, even amongst mon of kind and humane feelings, wherever 'he i,it crests of the Establishment are involved, produces to all consideration.. except those interests, an utter icsensibility."

Pertinaciously. imd with the chivalry of benevolence, Lord Ashley had fought the ha'lle of' the Fact,:ry children ; bat what a contrast his conduct presented when the interests of his Church Nvere. touched!— " His szalsibility at once evapoi at es; to the incigi nary hazards of the Esta- blishfr f.e inuttilates the ioterest. of thoasand, a ad thottsands of helpless beings. ao refo,es to stretch litli his bind io e,e them from tin' tkpth of ignorance sod el depravity ii it hich tlwy ,tce llas the noble lord ever bet.o..;n that port of this vast metropalis itt witicit 1,1.11 cMigration iS chiefly (..eposited has he yvee traversed that melancholy district, in which, at every step, the eye, the ear, the heart—e%...ry phy,isal ,Ind moral sees° is shocked? has he ever looked down into those recesses, in which hordes of miserable children are accumulated in heaps of wretchednesss? or has he ever looked up to the dwellings which swarm with diseased vitality, and through fleshless windows seen the face of squalid, emaciated, vacant childhood, staring with the glare of ignorance and misery upon him? If he were .co observe and become familiar with such spectacles, his over-righteous habits would give way; his natural emotions would get tIm better of his prejudices; and he would feel that true religion, which is identified with charity and with mercy, required that for the instruction of those unfortunate creatures something on the part of the Legislature must be performed. I have heard much in the course of this discussion of the dogmas of theology. I do not profess to be con- versant with them ; but I bometimes read the Bible; in every page of which the lessons of metey are so admirably inculcated; and it strikes me that, if there be a passage which the character of our Saviour is described in a pe- culiarly amiable light, it is that in which lie is represented as desiring his disciples not to forbid little children to come unto him. I think-1 cannot help thinking—that if among the little group on whose heads be was invoked to lay his hands, there haul heen the child of a Saducee or of a Samaritan, the God of mercy and of love would not have put the little schismatic aside. Do not imitate the example of thoee by whom the children were rebuked : suffer them to approach him ; let them have access to the mines of pure morality, and of that truth which is commou to all Christians; do mit close the avenues to that knowledge which loads to Imppiness ellen time shall be no more ;' and, in- stead of engaging hi acrimonious contentions about ecclesiastical prerogatives and preteusioas, let us act on the prevept contained in the Divine injunction- ' Suffer little children to ceme unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.'" (Muth checriny.) Mr. GOL-LIWIIN professed himself ignorant, after all the Ministerial explanations, whether the first scheme had really been abandoned or not. What was to be the meaning of their vote? He believed, in common with his friends around him, that this vote was intended to pave the way for the introduction of the original scheme of the Com- mittee of the Privy Council. He thought that the mode of proceeding on this gitestion might materially affect the conduct of business in the House of Commons— He knew as well as Mr. Vernon Smith, that thy right of ,eranting supplies belonged exclusively to this House, and that this House would lint permit the other House of Parliament to meddle with its privilege in that respect ; but he also knew that the Comfitation gave to the other house the right to negative or aflirm any vote this node: made when mainlined to them by a bill, and funnerly it wetill 11;lV:.• bad the power to negative or affirm this vote. But the House of Peers had excluded itself from that power, inasmuch as not many years ago they had concurred iii inserting a clause in the Ways and Means Bill—a general permissiou to the Goveenment to issue the »ioney voted by this blouse without %Inning fir the Apprepriation Bill. That proceeding had been productirc of giant utility to the public service, for it enabled the Government to apply the money voted without the necessity of a separate Appropriation Bill. But if this House could manage by IlleR113 of a pecuniary bill to deprive the other House of the expression of its opinion upon the ques- tion mainly at ioue, be could tell Mr. Smith that he must not be surprised if, in vindication of their own privileges, they refused hereafter to concur in that clause which was inserted at the commencement of every session in the Ways and Means Bill, and reverted to the former practice under which money voted could only be used in the mode and for the purposes which were defined in the Act of Parliament.

Lord Jones RUSSELL, ill reply, referred to the Second 'Report of the Committee of Privy Couucil, dated 3d of June 1839, to satisfy Mr. Cresswell, Mr. Goulburn, ahd others, of the principle on which the money would be expended. From ma extract of the Report read by Lord John, it appeared that the general application of the money would be in aid of schools connected with the National Society and the Bri- tish and Foreign Sticiety, though the Committee did not consider themselves precluded from considering claims for assistance to other schools.

The Committee divided—

For the grant Against it Ministerial majority 2

On Thursday, the report was brought up, and the resolution agreed

to. Sir Roistner Pgisi. declined to make any further opposition ; having, he enid, ascertained that every Member of the House except twenty-four had already intimated his opinion on the subject.

COLONIAL LANDS.

On Tuesday, Mr. Wenn moved the following resolutions.

" 1. That the occupatien end cultivation of waste lands in the British Colo- nies, bv means of emigration, tends to improve the condition of all the indus- trious classes in the United Kingdom, by diminishing competition for employ- ment at Lorne, in consequence of the removal of superabundant numbers, creating mv markete, aad increasing the deinand tbr shipping and manufac- tures.

" 2 That the prosperity of colonies, and the progress of colonization, mainly depend upon the manner in which a right of private property in the waste lands of a colony may be acquired; and that, anudst the great variety of me- thods of disposing of waste lands which have been.pursuce by the British Go- vernmeet, the most effectual beyond comparison is the plan of sale, at a fixed, uniform, null sufficient price, for ready money, without any other condition or restrictien ; and the emol.nymialt of the what:, or a large und fixed proportion of the purcliase-money, in affording a passage to the colony, cost free, to young persons of the hiboming clas, in an equal proportion of the sexes.

" 1. That in order to derive the greatest pessible advantage from this method of colonising, it is essential that the permanence of the system should be se- cured by the Legislature, and that its administration should be intrusted to a distinct alum"-ette branch of the Colonial Department, authorized to sell Colonial !and,* in this country ; to anticipate the sales of land by raising loans for emieradem nti the security of future land sales ; and generally to super- intend time moinmniente by which the comfort and wellbeing of the emigrants are to be sectoad.

"4 That this method of colonizing had been applied by the Legislature to the new colony of Smith Australia with very remarkable and gratifying re- aulta ; and that it is expedient that Parliament should extend the South Australian system to all other Celonies %vhich arc suited to its operation."

In support of the resolutions, Mr. Ward delivered a very long speech. Ife referred to the alarming condition of the working clasees, and their movement agaimo peeperty, und society, as the result of economical suffering. It was hopessible to persuade !nen who could not obtain adequate means of subsistence by working sixteen hours a day, that there was not something rotten in the political system under which they laboured and suffered. There was TIO reasoning with empty stomachs. He had visited many countries, but in none had he

273 273

jitrrsts. beheld the extremes of rich and poor brought Into such fearfulu position as in this ; and he could easily understand how the Ch had been roused to feelings of hostility against the possessors of pro. perty. Mr. Ward described the wretched condition of the humbler Classes, and especially of the female portion of them—

'We were in the habit of boasting of being a moral country, and of the dis

tinction and care with which the womeu were treated; but in no country 1441; which he was acquainted did there exist so vast a mass of female misery and degradation. Not more than one woman out of three could marry at an early age, because such was the pressure against the means of subsistence, that not more than dud proportion of men could afford to do so. Employment also was most difficult to be procured by females ; and after working sixteen or seventeen hours a day at needlework, they hardly obtained sufficient to support animal subsistence—he believed not more than 8d. a day. The consequence was distress and prostitution to an extent and at an early age unheard of in an; other country. Thousands every year were running; their brief career a misery, drunKenneas, disease, the canal, or the grave. This was tl:c fate of a large proportion of that sex which we professed to love, to honour, to revere, nod which, under happier circumstances, shed the brightest influeme over our lives. These things might shoek delicacy and netional pride, but they ought to be known. We ought to see the abyss beihre us. This was the precise state III which revolutionsIvere to be dreaded. This was a condition of things vddeli required an Oh dive remedy. Revolutionary principles were harad'ess in a sound and healthy state of society ' • but they became highly do:vs:runs when they were put forward in a state of thing, like that which this country now saw, when men, in a condition of intense suffering and poverty, in a state of ignorance, with organization, numbers, with little or nothing to hope from things as tiny are, were prepared to welcome any and every &Inge. Ainang

the population mm of this country there was an ien ITI

se US5 of disaffietion, arising out of physical suffining,.combined with a consciousness of civil and political rights, with a sense of injury and a hopelessness of redress which gave a most formidable character to the movement which was now going on. Not only, however, were the working classes in a state of suffering—. every department of trade, every profession, was overstocked. The prospect 'would indeed be grievous were the means of relief confined to the British Islands. But such was not the case. There was an almost inexhaustible resource in the waste lands of the Colonies. Mr. Ward proceeded to describe the systematic mismanagement of the Colonies, especially in reference to the disposal of land ; contrasting it with the more judicious practice of the United States, who had con. yelled their unoccupied lands into a source of revenue and general prosperity. Ile paid a high compliment to Mr. Wakefield, the author of England awl America, who first discovered and expounded the true principle of celonization —which was not to disperse but to concentrate population and to Icep it together, so as to secure a supply of continuous and combinable free labour ; in default of which, the successful colonists of America had been compelled to obtain slaves. To prevent the poor emigrant from becoming a poor and useless land- owner—to prevent the capitalist from surrounding himself with a desert—a power must he lodged somewhere ; and it became a question in whom that power should be vested. If vested in the Govermnent, Colonial history proved how ruinous the result would be ; if in indi- viduals, some persons would take possession of immense tracts of country, to the exclusion of other settlers. There must be some esta- blished principle in the disposal of lands ; and in price would be found the only basis of a sound system of colonization with reference to the disposal of land. The price might and would vary—an acre of i land would be worth more n the West Indies than in Canada ; but the principle should be to affix such a price as would senure to the capi- talist a supply of labour. Mr. Ward cited the experience of the United States to prove that the pecuniary results of selling land freely to appli- cants had been most advantageous. Front I79d to 1836, the United States Government had received for land soil 13,7117,1O dollars; and, under this system, the whole of Western America had Lam converted into the most thriving combination of states the world ever saw. The management of Colonial lands by the British Government—a system of notorious favouritism and jobbing—presented a melancholy con- trast to this prosperity. lie illustratea it by the well-linawn instance of the Swan River. Iii L331, Lord Ilowick, at that time Under Secre- tary fbr the Colonies, introduced a new and better rule—a system of sales; and he laid down a regulation against future grants to indi- viduals, whatever might be their class or inflamice. But for perse- verance in this improved mode there was no guarantee. It was sabjeet to change by any Colonial Minister ; and eince 1830 theee had been no fewer than nine Secretaries fix the Coloniee ; some of whom—Mr. Spring llice, tbr instance—harl materially departed from the principle of Lord Ilowick's regulations, by appropriating part of the produce er sales to Colonial expenditure, and not to emigration. The prodigality with. which land had been granted in the (2anadas was exhibited in Lord Durham's Report ; as was also the misery attendant upon emigra- tion to Canada as now conducted. Mr. Ward contrasted the condition of the Canadas with that of the new Colony in South Australia; and read some statistical details to show the extraordinary stosmes of the

latter experiment. New Zealand, too, was Colonizing half, since Government refused to take under its guidance the settlement of that country by Englishmen. The actual condition of New Zealand, the evils inflicted upon its native inhabitants by the fiends in human shape who were now permitted to infest it, and the design and prospects of the New Zealand Association, were stated at lengin by Mr. Ward; and he concluded his speech with a description of the advantages to commerce and to society resulting from extensive and sueeeeelld colo- nization— • There were sonic who said that we don't want to extend our colonies—that we bad " colonies coough." Ile would ash, had ii e markets enough: hail we employment enough ? were wanes high enough and profits high enough: Was there no political discontene—no physical suffering: Yet the National Petition, with its twelve hundred thousaud ign1mt re s, stood for discussion that night. That petition was at once, as he had begun by proving, the child and emblem of national distress. That distress might be overcome, but only in one way. Ile believed the only effectual remedy was to be found in the resolutions which he bad laid upon the table of the House. Ile believed they would tend to the weliere of teeny till lain of human beings, and to the un- htrgement of the sovereignty of the British Crown. The Giiverionlit WzH called upon to incur any risk, but simply to lay down sound primepies, which individual euergy and enterprise would work out. Jim believed that if his resolutions were adopted, the result would be the creation of new communi- ties, in which the laws, the language, and the virtue of England would he pre served long after the ties which connected them with the blether Country were dissolved. In the experiment there was no outlay, or cost, or risk; yet if it were tried, we might have more people in the Coronien, and more people at home, and all better Mt He hoped there would be no lurking indisposinon n the part of the Government to entertain the question fairly, and in all its °comprehensive bearing; and he trusted that his honourable friend the Under Secretary would not, by committing himself against it, shut Mins& out from the greatest career of practical utility that had ever been opened to an English statesman at a most critical time.

Sir WatiAta MOLESWORTH seconded the motion. He explained fully the operation of the new principle of colonization, by which the produce of land sales was made to procure a supply of labour ; and then proceeded to show that the principle was applicable to the Penal Colonies of New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land. He entered into numerous details of the rapid progress of those colonies in wealth and importance, and of their immense resources as yet untouched. Their prosperity was owing to the supply of combinable labour with which they had been furnished. from this country by the constant im- portation of large numbers of convicts, and to the immense expendi- ture of British funds in keeping up penal establishments. About 110,000 convicts had been transported since 1786, and eight millions sterling had been expended on the Penal Colonies. But of late, the supply of labour from English gaols, on which the prosperity of these colonies depended, had become inadequate, and it was necessary to take other means of furnishing it. The great influx of capital had caused a comparative scarcity of that labour which was needed to make capital productive; the inequality in the numbers of the sexes obstructed the natural progress of population ; and the employment of convicts had rendered many persons averse to several kinds of labour—the free

emigrant being unwilling to adopt occupations previously confined to

convicts. He was convinced that Government could not long persist in transporting criminals, and then the chief source of labour would be cut off The importation of a few thousand Hindoos would give only a temporary relief, and would. establish a species of slavery where re- sorted to. If transportation, however, were continued, it would become necessary to restrict the limits of the penal settlements. Ile much doubted whether Government were justitied in sending free emigrants and convicts to the same place; mei it was to be expected that persons who ceithl go elsewhere would (Need to emigrate to colonies vhere the stated society was contaminated by coaviets, and the most useful occu- pations regar:led as degrading because shared with criminals. li trans- portation were discontinued, there would be no difficulty in gradually purging the Penal Colonies, and in maintaining their condition of pros- perity. The means were pointed out in .31r. Ward's resolutions ; and it only required inclination nod determination on the part of the Govern- ment to adopt those meaes. For 30,000 or 40,000 convicts, the same oe a larger number of free labourers might be substituted, whose labour would be much cheaper than that of criminals. TIP.' natural increase of population, resulting front a judicious selection of emigrants of both sexes, would be great. The moral change in the condition of the colo- nists would be striking ; and they would becomefitted for self-govern- ment and the reception of free institutions. To defray the expense of conveying 1011,000 persons to New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land, only two millions sterling would be required ; for the entire cost would not exceed 20/. a head. This stun, spread over four or five years. would be from four to five hundred thousand pounds annually ; and it would be unnecessary to make any call upon the British public to provide that antenna. The sum might be easily raised on the security of the ,;11i,A of' waste land: in proof whereof, Sir William begged at- tentioe t,) tih? receipts from the sales of land in those colonies. The large e:!!il 372,000/. had been raised in Cie years 1832-3-4-5-6, front land sold at the upset price of only five shillings an acre—a price far too low, and since raised by Government to twelve shillings an acre. h,lieved that twenty shillings an acre, as recommended by the Traevortation Committee, would not be too high : the experience of the new colony of' South Australia showed that 1/. an acre was not too high a price fm. the Australian Colonies. Now, with an annual emi- gration of 211,0,10 persons,dt was no exaggeration to calculate that the revenue or laud sold at front 12s. to 1/. an acre would reach 200,00o/. a year upon which two millions might easily be raised, on payment of' the ledonial interest of ten per cent. Still more easily could titer or five hundred thousand a year for fbur or five years be procured on the same terms. But then, there meet he the security of a permanent sys- tem, founded on an act of Parliament. It' the Government would gumlike, the loan, the excessive interest of 10 per cent, would not be asked, and a fund for the gradual extinction of the debt might be obtained—

This phut, which was the result of much and careful consideration, had un-

expectedly received the strongest confirmation of which it was susceptible. Ile had within these few days received from New South Wales the Report of the Committee of the Legislative Council on Emieration, which sat towards the close of last year. From that repo- it appeared, that it plan precisely similar to his own—natnely, or raising 2,000,000L on the eeemit e of waste lands, to be expended on emigration-1ml been sidtmitted to the Ciinonittee ; and that a letter bad been addressed to the Committee, gin mg the sanction and approba- tion of numerous persons of property aud intelligence to the propeeal in ques- tion. Ile understood that the Committee had rderrod this proposal to eighty- two of the most intelligent told extensive proprietors in the colony ;that tufty-eight hail expresseetheinselves in terms or I lii huiltest approbation of the measure, eight only declined to give an opinion, 11111 eighteen objected to ir,— chiefly from the fear of its becoming a job, and that there was no ssa.nrity that the w.hole money would be applied- to immigration, as the Colonial Govern- ment had alremly applied a consideraide portion of the proceed, of tit., land sales to other purposes. If the motion of his honourahle friend were carried, the only objection to this plan would therefore be rent wed, and he was assured that the colony would be unanimous in its support. Mr. Lsuouettente; agreed, that no more important subject could be entertained by the Legislature, than that brought under consideration by Mr. Ward and Sir William Molesworth. Ile was of opinion that no mere solemn duty rested upon the Government, than that of avail- ing itself of the unoccupied territory in the British dominions, to diffuse the manners, laws, language, and Institutions of England. He could have wished for more experience in his department before bLIR 0. • Ca e d

,

upon to give an opinion upon so great a subject as that under discussion. He had not a word to say in defence of the system of disposing of waste lands, which prevailed till within the last ten years. It was me laucholy to behold the mischief done by the pestilent system ()robbing which had been adopted. But there was difficulty in retracing their steps. Much caution was required in dealing with a subject involving

the rights and interests of so many Colonies and their Legislatures. And while he agreed with the principle of the resolutions, he objected to some of the details. He thought—and on this point he was fortified

by the opinion of Sir George Gipps, Governor of New South Wales—

that the surest way of preventing jobbing and favouritism, was to fix an upset price, and then sell the land to the highest bidder. Even in South Australia, it had been found impossible to adhere strictly to the principle of applying all the proceeds of land sales to immigration; and part had been taken, under an act of Parliament passed last ses- sion, for the general purposes of the Government. With respect to the

proposed exportation of a large number of emigrants to New South Wales, he thought that much evil mig.lit sometimes arise from it. A letter front Sir George Gipps informed him, that, owing to a long drought, labourers in New South Wales might be seen with their hands crossed unable to find employment. He mentioned objections which occurred to him, but he was ready to give the entire subject favourable consideration— Ile was truly sensible of the deep importance of this sehject ; and he might say for the noble Marqvis who held the seals of the Colonial Office, that there inns no subject on which he Wa:, more anxious. lie could listire his honour-

able friend awl the Rouse, that Ida 110hie tliend approached thio subject with a minul witolly unprejudiced ; and he WV, most anXiOnS at the tirst season of

1 •ign re, t the question in all its details, with a sincere anxiety to do what was hest for the interest of the Colonies and of the Aluther Country. I hi hoped that his honourable friend would rest satislied with this assurance, and that he would be of opinion that this WaS a question which might more properly be left to the tix';edlive. I le did hot Zly this With a:;y NOSII to evade the question, no he wat animated ::;leiy by a &site cantimisly and carefully to come to a conclesion that would moet conduce to the interest and the welfare of the Colonies and of the Mother Country, Mr. WARBUBTAN hoped that Mr. Ward would not be satisfied with Laboneln;re's promise to take the subject into consideration. A fixed principle for the disposal of waste lands, and the application of the proceeds, ought to he laid down, so that it could not be set aside by the mere dictum of a Colonial Secretary. They had an example of the manner in which the Colonies were governed, in the ease of Nova Scofia- What could be thought of the peoteetion afforded by the Mother Country to the Colonies, when. in tiler to p:'y the gambling debts of the Duke of York, ell the mines; and minerals of Nova !eot to were ar oiie rAl swoop granted away hy the Colonial (Mice? The grant WaS immediately sold to a silversmith, to whom thee important rIglIts were ft:nisi...mai ill perpetuity.

The Governmeat must not be c(mtent with promoting emigration only— If they wi,lied to t,lieve this country from the pres.mre of population upon subsistence, he hoped Zlivy V.111th 110t COli:Altde that tla.y were bound to take no other step, to precure'employment fer ;he populatiou of this country. Let them not thiek toe in pr.moting emigr.1;ion Ow:: Were exempted from doing that which they ought t.) do, in order that initust!.;. alight be promoteil and adequately rermmenited in this country ; hut let them, by a well-regulated syst,mi of import-. ami I:y giving due encouragement to employment, enable Ill e pspelation at !tame to obtaia the means of' eabeistenee to a proper reward thr I heir labour.

Mr. LI-0es thought the saleject of very great importance in connexion with the state of the pensantrj-. He could not go the entire length of the resolutione, but wished every facility to be given to the emigration of free labourers, on some fixed principles, which should bind the Government.

Lord Howie:: repeated 53111e of 'Jr. Lelymehere's objections to the resolutions ; laying stress upon the 41:Irger of interfering with the right of disposiog of land, now held or claimed by the Colonial Legislatures. To fie a high price and limit 1.1, oconpation land, would be very un- popular in the Canedes, e.ltere. ie. in the Uni. el States, there was a

strong feeling iu feeour of whai " eilpat ion?: Lord

Howie]: expressed his coecin reeee w1-11 es: el principle, that all waste lands in the Cot ••i;:l it large pardon of the proceeds devotod to Clio 1 but he thought it . used for inland obeeeles advisable flee it toe.

improvee—the elleels. prisons, and the m fat' purposes, making iii roads ; otherwiee e e r tine te. e and taxation ie pone.: cohlniee le .1 leeI ;eel ory disadvantageous, even in the United :4;;Ill'•■ it•■•.11.. Al Mr. ('harks Buller cheered that remerk lit 11; weld v e...; travelled gentlemen to knock dawn at once ell to , . :riiiee. And he would take the opportunity of rem:ell:1e' si. 11.• :lee of hi assertion that no aid eould be conveyed front I.- 1 .1. (Thee le to New Mninswiek, unless

the troops were tramTorted 0)::. Now it happened that two

regiments had netted ly been seut t .- 1irenswieh, and one was sent back. Yet upon this poim r. liii ii 1 1..d given liim a point-blank contradietion Lord I kiwi ;lee:tate-1 t etiopt the principle of anti- cipating the revenue.. ; mid viewed wiilt th.,p0,.,i!nlity of an over supply of labour in a colono and the dill:, ii1 i!•:z for emigrants

who could find no occupation. lie Me. V;•:r'. wenld be satisfied

with the discussion, and mint insist te.2.0; di\ 1..: ee which, from the thinness of the House, would riot look very well iu the Votes the next day.

Sir ROBERT INGLis thought, that colonization ought to be conducted by the Government. on a large seale. Oil not left to a New Zealand Company or a South Australian Compauy—a speculation in one place/ and a bubble company in another.

Mr. Clt sit litAssen supported the resolutions. He thought it most deeirable that the House should come to a determination ott the que6tion. and that Ministers should not confine themselves to the ex- pression Of good intentions. Lord Howiel, had prolonged the debate in the hope of convicting him of an inaccuracy committed three months ago. But what was the amount of that inaccuracy ? lie had said that at the breaking up of the winter, the roads were impassable, and that no mail could pass front Quebee to New Brunswick when the roads were impassable. If Lord Howick thought the mail could travel on an impassable road, no doubt the noble lord would take an opportunity of establishing that position by argument. (Much laughter.) Mr. SIlAW suggested the employment of steam navigation as a means of intercourse between the Australian Colonies.

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN stated that 10,000 emigrants of good character could be annually supplied from the banks of the Shannon alone.

Mr. DARBY made some remarks on the difficulty of affixing a fair price for the land, and of apportioning the sum to be paid out of it for passage-money.

Mr. WARD, in replying, observed that Mr. Darby had evidently not given his thoughts to the subject, and did not understand it, though he fancied he did. Mr. Ward would withdraw his motion ; and as he was aware the subject could not be properly dealt with by an unofficial Member, he would leave it in the hands of Ministers, trusting that they would deal with it as its importance required.

Motion withdrawn.

THE POOR-LAW, BALLOT, EXTENSION OF SUFFRAGE.

Lu the House of Lords, on Tuesday-, Earl STANHOl'E presented peti- tions on these subjects ; and in a very long and desultory speech ex- pressed his own opinion on each of then,. In the prayer for the repeal of the Poor-law he cordially concurred. lie objected, for reasons stated powerfully in a pamphlet by the Reverend Sylley Smith, to the Ballot. He also could not concur with the petitioners for Universal Suffrage, because that would give prepouderanee in the State to the numerical majority ; but he thought that the line drawn by the Reform Act, which excluded persons occupying houses of less than 10/. value, most unjust he was for extending the suffrage, but thought it should be by giving representatives to each class of society. He dwelt upon the disappointment in the working of the Reform A :t, which its most strenuous supporters avowed. It was Peel's Bill which produced the Reform Act; and as long as they maintained the currency as fixed in 1819, and the pernicious system of free trade, there would be no such thing as profitable employment and a fair remuneration for labour. All he asked for the labourer was " a fair day's wages for a fair day's work."

Lord Rim-Guam said, that the petitions presented by Lord Stanhope, one of which proceeded from a meeting held near Manchester and at- tended by 300,00u persons, were entitled to, and would receive from their Lordships, the greatest respect and attention. That the petition- ers were unrepresented, made their claim for consideration the stronger. For the benefit of the State it became the painful duty of those who framed the Reform Bill to restrict the franchise. It was not true, how- ever, as had been said, that the authors of the Reform Bill intended that measure to be final. He most solemnly asserted, exit it was not true that in the view of the Government of 1832 the Reform Act was per- manent and unalterable— Ile spoke with full recollection of what passed at the time ; he spoke as a member of that Government, and with a full mid accurate knowledge and re- collection of the terms which one of the members of that Government used. The individual was humble enough in mind, so that it muttered little to him whd:thee the opinions he thee put furth passed, like other men's, into oblivion; the individual was humble enough in talent, humble enough in powers of use- fulntss, and iniflit not poesibly have had title to claim attention, but for the high and dignified station in tile councils of the Sovereign which he held—but for having had a haml in the bill—but for having been one of those who suc- ceeded in carrying it throw:II—but for having held the most distinguished sta- tion in the Goveunment at that time, however little might have been the talents he possessed. Ile spoke as a member of that Gevernment, when he said, that he had a right to rebut the charge which was made upon it, and to ward it off—to declare war against the barharous word " finality," and say that the Government did not consider the Reform Bill as a final measure. As Chancellor in that Government—as a framer of the bill—as knowing what were the views, expectations, and intentions of the members of that Govern- ment, !potion pais magna fait—he had made no secret of his own views in reference to the measure. He did say then, as be said now, that he had no doubt some advance must be made at some future period beyond the principles laid down in that bill; and he particularly stated, that before long, and as soon as the people became more enlightened as to their political rights, and better versed in the practice of them, he had no doubt it would become expedient, and he should not hesitate to extend the suffrage much loner—" much lower" was his plerase—than it was fixe51 by the bill.

He felt alarmed when the doctrine of " finality" was broached, and had written a letter to Lord John Russell in reply to one addressed by that noble lord to the electors of Stroud. He wished to build a bridge over which Lord John might pass and rejoin his old friends and allies. What he had hardly dared to hope—the vision, which in his waking hours he scarcely expected to see realized—had come to the very verge of verification —

NV tactile'. from the force of the arguments contained in his letter, or from the timidity of thoee who maintained opposite opinions, or from whatever cause, the result had Leen, or seemed to be, that his blissful vision was realized, and the doctrin, of tiaality abandoned; because he found that the Ballot, which heretofore hell beim described and treated as one of the most ticklish, offen- sive, and repulsive questions that could be urged upon the Goverinnent, was to be made alt "open question," for the purpose of conciliating the friends of the Ballot, and of giving to that importent measure a better chance of passinginto a law. Great was the joy which many friends of the Ballot instantly con- ceived open this change. Much was his exultation, thinking that lie as an in- dividual had contributed to this happy revolution; mighty indeed was the ex- ultation of the friewle of further ref win out of doors thinking that after all the Ministers were Inure cal liefieeners than they -Lad been supposed to be ; confident were the expectatioes thai the Ballot, whose supporters in the House of the Commons lied y ter after veer continued to increase, would now speedily be adopt‘ S, se, thet the resistance of the Government to it was to be dis- continued. 'nes vhdou passed before men's *eyes for a few days, hut it was more timing ti,e1 a summer's cloud; for then came out the disclosure, which certainly slid e-found one—which certainly did petrify one—which converted all their tort of joy into tears of bit fewness and wo—that the Ballot was made an open question ler the express purpose of defeating it, and of preventing its ever beh.ses carried. (eeesehter.) lo-e, poor innocent men—we, good ignorant plain folk—leel. all along imagined, ia our dream of statesmanship—in our vision of Cabinetship—in our las.y view of Ministerial management, knowing nothing of the new arts and sciences of statesmen—we had all along the folly, the ridiculous, absurd folly, to believe that if thirty or forty men were told that they might vote for the Ballot it' they chose, the probability of the ultimate carrying of the Ballot woulil be iiiereased. (Cheers.) Somehow or other, we had gut the iguorant and foulleh notiou Leto our heads, that the greater the number of people who voted for measure, the greater would be the chance of its success. (Langht,r.) What could beguile us into such OH utter oblivion of all the dictates of common sense, all the rides of common arithmetic, as to dream that, for the purpose of evincing the, growing popu- larity of a meaeure, and the probability of its being ultimately carried, the mi- nority who supported it should be very great instead of very small I (Laughter.) How great must have been the infatuated ignorance which rendered us blindto the obvious truth, that after the advantage of being in a minority of five one day, the next beat thing was to be in a minority of two I (Great laughter and cheering front the Opposition.) We were even so besotted in our igno- ranee of statesmanship and state-craft, as to believe, that if the minority could be changed into a majority, it would be so much the better for the mea- sure. But the Government immediately set us straight upon the point. ens not deluded," said they; "don't talk of a majority, 'tis the worst thing in the

world i

—the best thing s a minority, and the smaller the minority the better." Hence it was that the Ballot was made an open question. This extremely odd and unintelligible doedrine seemed to him not to savour of plain, straight- forward, honest dealing ; and he could not help thinking that those who left the question of the -Ballot open in order to gratify, on the one side their friends, and at the same time to gratify their friends on the other—_ those who said that their dependents voted for the measure with the view of throwing it out—those who asstimed a tone of friendship towards the measure for the sake of strangling it—those who threw their arms around the measure and clasped it to their asoms with an Iscariot embrace—he could not help fearing, when he saw such a course of conduct pursued, that this might not be the last act of a similar kind resorted to to prevent the progress of Reform.

For his own part, Lord Brougham confessed reluctance to the Ballot without an extension of the suffrage to all who were capable of exer- cising it usefully to the State and creditably to themselves. Lord Stanhope seemed to think that the House of Commons had fallen into universal and merited contempt ; but Lord Brougham really could not see why people should be so very much against the House of Com- mons— So far from domineering over the country by the strong arm—so far from denying the claims of the people by large majorities—the House of Commons was most modest, most ditlident—hardly ever expressing any opinion at all— seldom coining to any definite conclusion—expressing its mild convictions, its temperate desires, by majorities sometimes of five, sometimes of two—pur- suing " the smooth and even tenor of its svay" in a state of uninterrupted calm, alone solicitous, as it would secre, for the continued enjoyment of repose. It was any thing but a dogmatical House of Commons. (Cheers and laughter.) For his own part, lie saw no reason for objecting to this happy body, which seemed to have no mind of its own • and he was sure that the harsh expression of his noble friend " that it laid thilen into universal and merited contempt," could not possibly be deserved: at all events, as applied to so weak and met. offending a body, the expeession was a little too Strong.

Lord .MELBOURNE did not approve of these useless discussions—these mere excitations, the coutlict of argument and oratory : they were a departure from the ancient, earlier, and sounder practice of Parliament, which confined those who presented petitions to a statement of their contents, and any remarkable circumstance connected with them. He did not think that the opinions expressed in the petition presented by Lord Stanhope prevailed to the extent that noble lord supposed ; and indeed, nothing surprised him more than the little impression which so much excitement, applied front such various quarters, had created on the popular mind. He would not go into a history of' the Reform Bill, nor further notice the word "finality," than to say that it was not to be found in the language, or at least in any dictionary ; and that it never could have been intended to say of any bill, or auy human measure, that it should be fixed, settled, final and decisive, and incapable of any change or alteration. What was meant was, that a measure of so so- lemn a nature should not be hastily or wantonly altered. For himself, he stood particularly clear of the doctrine of finality. On the second reading of the Reform Bill, he made two statements to guard himself against future misconception- " One was, that unquestionably the measure would fail to answer some of those anticipations then held regarding it ; that it would not produce any of those advantages to whichThie 'meth:a to whom I allude then looked forward; that it would not introduce great changes in the state of society ; that it would not do away with bribery and corruption, and that it would not free the electors from all influence. And the other statement I made, most perfectly and distinctly-, was, that I was aware the measure could not stop there, and that it could not be final. I stated these opinions on that occasion, as wishing to lay the matter fairly and distinctly before your Lord- ships ; and when I made them, I was certainly- led to look to ulterior conse- quences. Therefore, in saying that I agree with my noble friend who brought forward this petition in most of the statements which he made and in most of the opinions which he delivered on the measures recommended in this petition, I beg leave to add, that I am against those measures not because they are an advance on the Reform Bill—not because. they go further than the Reform Bill—not because they are steps towards further progress—but because they are bad and pernicious measures in themselves, and ought not, therefore, to be adopted. Unquestionably, it is not on Line- other more general grounds that I oppose them."

The Duke of WELLINGTON concurred with Lord Melbourne in re- probating the practice of making other than explanatory speeches on the presentation of petitions. He still thought that Lord Stanhope would act more wisely in bringing forward some specific measure, than in making exciting speeches leading to nothing.

Lord STANHOPE, ill reference to this last remark, told a story of an officer, who when asked by his sovereign why he had not taken his opponent prisoner in the field of battle, replied, that if he had made the attempt perhaps he would have been taken prisoner himself. With this lesson in his recollection, Lord Stanhope hoped the Duke of Wel- lington, who desired to frustrate, not to aid his efforts, would allow him to fight his own battle in his own way.

The petitions were laid on the table, and the discussion closed.

MISCELLANEOUS.

THE MARQUIS OF WESTMINSTER ON FURTHER REFORM. On pre- senting a petition to the Lords on Thursday, praying the House not to oppose the Ballot, Triennial Parliaments, and Extension of the Suffrage, the Marquis of WESTMINSTER took occasion, as he said, "to follow the fashion of making a profession of faith," and declared his agreement with the petitioners on the three points specified.

LONDON AND BLACKWALL RAILWAY BILL. The Duke of WELLING.

TON presented a petition against this bill ; and announced his intention of opposing the second reading, because the bill was at variance with that passed three years ago, and which was obtained on the understand- ing that the railway was not to be carried into the heart of the City of London. The 11farquis of SALISBURY regretted that the Duke of Wellington had departed from the usual course of proceeding; and he hoped that the House would suspend its judgment till he moved the second reading.

Mori SHERIFFS' EXPENSES. Lord COLCHESTER moved the second reading of a bill, the object of which was to relieve High Sheriffs from the heavy charges attached to the execution of their office, and throw them on the county-rate. The motion was opposed by the Duke of RICHMOND, the Earl of WINCHILSEA, and the Marquis of LANSDOWNE ; and was negatived without a division.

THE BILLS OF EXCHANGE BILL was " considered" in a Committee of the House of Lords, on Monday. On the motion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, a clause was inserted, which extended the operation of the measure so as to allow a higher rate of interest than five per cent. to be paid on advances upon Exchequer Bills, India Bonds, and other securities, as well as bills of exchange, to which the bill was originally confined. The Duke of WELLINGTON moved a clause to limit the operation of the bill to 1841 ; which motion was opposed by the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, but carried by a majority of 69 to 52. The House then resealed.

APPOINTMENTS IN MAI,TA. The Earl of RIPON, on a formal motion for papers, (which were granted,) brought this subject before the Lords, on Thursday. He complained of the dismissal of Sir John Stoddart the Chief Justice, Mr. Langslow the Attorney-General, and Mr. Cum- berland the Collector of Customs in Malta, without giving the parties removed an opportunity of stating their respective cases. They were dismissed on the recommendation of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the affairs of Malta; and Lord Ripon contended, that their recommen- dation was unjust, founded on ignorance, and most injudiciously acted upon by the Colonial Office. He dwelt especially on the hardship of Mr. Cumberland's treatment. That gentleman was the grandson of a person distinguished in the literature, of the country, and had himself behaved with credit in Spain, especially at the siege of Badajos : ill health compelled him to quit his profession, and Lord upon, when Co- lonial Secretary, had given him in 1833 the appointment of Collector of Customs in Malta. When dismissed from that appointment, he only re- ceived the sum of 250/. as compensation ; which was exhausted in bringing home himself and six children. He had since obtained 100/. from the Treasury, but coupled with the cruel and insulting observa- tion that he was incapable of employment on account of inefficiency. Mr. Cumberland, with all the feelings of a gentleman, was now re- duced to live on the bounty of friends. Lord Ripon contended, that in removing these gentlemen without compensation, the Government had departed from an established rule. Lord GLENELG Lord Chancellor COrFENHAM, the Marquis of NOR- MANBY, and Lord MELBOURNE defended the course taken by Govern- ment, on the ground that the offices of Chief Justice and Attorney- General were nearly sinecures ; and that the duties of Mr. Camber- lands office, which, owing to his entire ignorance of the language and manners of the Maltese, were necessarily performed by deputy, were now discharged in a superior manner for a reduced salary. The salary of the Chief Justice was 1,600/. a year ; while the Maltese Judges re- ceived only 400/. a year each. The Attorney-General's salary was 8001. a year; but so little need was there of his services, that no incon- venience resulted from his absence in this country for two years. As to compensation, there were regulations on that point, which had not been departed from. Besides, Sir John Stoddart had been offered a Judgeship in Australia ; and Mr. Langslow an appointment of equal value to that which he lost, though not in so healthy a climate. The Marquis of NORMANDY characterized Mr. Cumberland's appointment as most injudicious. Lord MELBOURNE thought that Mr. Cumberland's friends had better not inquire too closely into his case. He believed the 1001. was not all the compensation he had received ; and he could not be considered a very unfortunate person, who, having been com- pelled to give up his profession, received a handsome salary for six years for doing nothing. Sir John Stoddart had received four-twelfths of his salary—as large a compensation as the Treasury could award. The Attorney. General was not entitled to any compensation ; but be had received a year's salary. Lord BROUGHAM condemned the removal of the gentlemen mentioned. He contended, especially, that the Chief Jus- tice should have been retained, as, in a colony where English laws and manners would be gradually introduced, an English lawyer was much needed. As to the little duty he performed, Lord Brougham could show that many Judges in England and Scotland sat but a small portion of each year.

BUSINESS OF TI1E HOUSE. Sir ROBERT PEEL, on Thursday, reminded Lord John Russell, that it had been usual for Government to state at an earlier period of the session than that which they had now reached, what bills would be proceeded with and what postponed. He hoped that an early day would be fixed for the Canada Bill ; and he gave notice that he should resist the motion for the second reading of that bill, and the second reading of other bills, on which it was not intended to have ally effective legislation. Lord Jolts; RUSSELL promised to be prepared shortly to give the information desired. In the mean time, he could state, that three bills connected with Scotland—the Salaries of Judges, the Prisons, and the . Bankrupts' Estates Bill—would certainly be proceeded with. Regard- ing Canada, Sir Robert Peel seemed to be under a misapprehension. He had already stated, that the bill for the union of the two provinces would not be pressed this session, but that for augmenting the powers of the Governor and Special Council must be proceeded with. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, he perfectly well understood that there were two bills : his objection was to the adoption of a principle which was not to be carried into effect, and had reference to the measure for uniting the two Cana- das ; he did not know that he should oppose the principle of the other measure. LordJoHN RUSSELL wishedto proceed with the Irish Municipal Bill on the next night. Mr. SHAW wished for postponement. Sir Ro- user PR EL said.--o Let us take Canada first." His own Election Jurisdiction Bill was to comein his head that measure he next night, nd he could not Carry in too. In re t Lord and the280. clauses of the Irish Municipal y o or ASHLEY, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Fir:dray Bill wouldtake precedence of the other orders of the day on Regisg.tion'ori FEolexconuliiirl—' Scotch measures—be read a second time in moving that the Fictitious Votes and that day three months, said he should take the earliest opportunity of again introducing them next session. THE ELECTORS REMOVAL BILL was opposed by Mr. BAGGE, Colonel S1BTHORPE, MT. BLACKSTONE, Lord SANDON, Lord DUNGANNON, Mr. GORE, Sir G. CLERK, Lord INGEszatE, and Mr. GOULBURN. It VMS supported by Mr. EWART, Mr. WARBURTON, Mr. BROTHERTON, Sir RonEar ROLFE, and Mr. GIBSON. In the course of his speech, Lord IsomsTem said, Mr. Gibson had been called a " Conservative Radical" —he really did not know what that meant. Mr. GOULIDIRN having observed that this was not a party measure, Mr. GIBSON said— He trusted that the noble lord the Member for Staffordshiro would take a gentle reproof from this intimation of the right houottrable gentleman. (Cheers.) The noble lord said this measure would come better from the other side of the House. (Cheers from the Opposition, answered by cheering front the Ministerial benches.) It was quite clear that such a remark could only be dictated by party and not by public spirit. As for the term that had been ap- plied to him, namely, that of a Conservative Radical, he did not exactly know what it meant, but he knew perfectly well that the leading persons who had supported him at his election at Ipswich urged him to bring forward this bill, and he was therefore placed in rather a difficult situation, and hardly knew whom to please. (Imityhter and cheers.)

The bill was read a third time, by a vote of 137 to 122, and passed.

EDUCATIONAL Cuanmes. Sir Emun.Ey WiLmyr called attention to the abuse Of funds bequeathed for the support of grammar schools in

England and Wales. There was scarcely a village in England without a school rendered useless and inoperative. In a district with which he was connected, there was a school with salary and emolument to the master worth nearly 400/. a year, in which nothing but Latin was

taught, because it was a grammar school. In Birmingham, on the other hand, a decree had been obtained from the Lord Chancellor, under which an income of two or three thousand a year, instead of being paid to one master, was devoted to procuring instruction in different branches of a general education— In reference to the general condition of these grammar schools, he would sug- gest to the noble lord to bring in a bill to enable the trustees to extend the

education given in these schools from the present system to a more general one,

subject to the hat of the Lord Chancellor, or any visiters who might be ap- pointed. The rusult of the introduction of such a measure would be advanta- geous in the extreme; for instead of gentlemen, as now, receiving large in- comes with nothing to do, the means woulit be afforded for tradesmen's sons to receive their education gratuitously ; and for every single scholar now educated. from the trust funds, there would be hundreds.

Lord Jons RussELL said, he had been in communieation with the Lord Chancellor on the subject last year, when Lord Brougham's bill was before Parliament. Lord Brougham had prepared another bill, which in due time would receive the Lord Chancellor's consideration. The subject should not be lost sight of:

Mr. CHARLES BULLER said, that lie had been informed by a Charity Commissioner, that in three parishes in Lincolnshire, funds sufficient to provide for the education of the district were frittered away in small sums, so that pauperism was encouraged instead of instruction being promoted. Mr. BROTHERTON said, in the Grammar School of Man- chester, there had been only two hundred and were now only three hundred scholars ; though the funds amounted to 6,000/. a year,—an income sufficient to educate a great part of the poor of Manchester. Mr. TATTON EGERTON stated, that there were two schools in Manchester supported by that fund—one a classical academy, the other open to all the world. Captain PECHELL alluded to the " villanous facts " of the Great Berhampstead School, where there were funds amounting to 2,01)0/. or 3,000/. a year, but not a single scholar. Mr. .ALsros re- ferred to a school at Willoughby in Lincolnshire, where the master's usher was his son, who had a house and emoluments worth 600/. a year, while not a single child belonging to the place or neighbour- hood received a particle of education at the school. Sir EDWARD Sue- DEN said, it should not be forgotten that grammar schools were founded for classical education ; and to employ the masters in teaching little boys reading and writing, would be the most unreasonable thing in the world. Sir 'ROBERT INGLIS objected to divert the school funds front the channel pointed out by the original testators. Sir RonEtcr PEEL objected to discuss the question without notice. He wished to draw the Attorney-General's attention to the fact. that in some schools the trusts were not legally constituted, and tile funds too small to bear the expense of an application to the Lord Chancellor to rectify the error. Lord Join.: Bus:mm.1. observed, that it was a difficult point to settle how flar the will of the founder should be followed. He scarcely thought that even Sir Robert Inglis would wish it to be slavishly exe- cuted. If it were, masses for the souls of time dead must be said in some colleges. Sir ROBERT INGLIS said, he should be prepared to ad- here to the precise terms of the will of the founder, when Lord John Russell repealed an act three centuries old declaring masses for the dead unlawful—but not till then.

The conversation then dropped.

SALE or BEER Buz. Mr. PAKINGTON moved that the House should go into Committee on this bill. Mr. H ME moved to postpone the Committee for six months ; which motion was opposed by Mr. SANFORD, Lord DUNGANNON, and Mr. SPRING RICE: and, on Mr. Wannywrox's suggestion, Mr. Ht-siE withdrew his motion, and the House went into Committee.

No intelligible account of what took place in Committee is given in the newspapers, and the Vote-paper does not supply much assistance. It would seem that the first clause having been rejected by 103 to 76, and another clause proposed by Lord SANIA/N also rejected, by 146 to 85, Mr. SPRING RICE moved a series of entirely new clauses, which are to be printed and taken into consideration on a future day.

THE BELF.kST WATERWORKS Mu., supported by Mr. O'CONNELL and Captain Ptalitna., opposed by Mr. EMERSON TENNENT and Mr. DUNBAR, was read a second time on Thursday. by a majority of 107 to 53.

ECCLESIASTICAL APPOINTMENTS SUSPENSION. Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice, that he should move for leave to bring in a bill to continue

for another year the act passed last session for suspending appoint- ments to certain Cathedral dignities, in order to allow au opportunity for the Deans and Chapters themselves to effect the reforms con- templated in the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill: which would be postponed, until it was ascertained whether the Suspension Bill would

pass. Should that bill be rejected, he should press the original measure. IRISH RAILWAYS. In reply to questions from Mr. ELLIS, Mr. SHAW. SIMI Mr. O'CONNELL, on Tuesday, Lord MORPETBI etated; that, from communications which had been addressed to him from all parts of the House, he saw no reasonable prospect of tarrying either the original proposition of making one railway in Ireland, or the second in favour of extending assistance equally to all the provinces of Ireland; and therefore he thought it right to state candidly, at once, that Govern- ment had decided to leave the field open to private competition ; though he could not bind himself to say whether or not, at any future period, the Government -would be prepared to take up the scheme again. Naw ZEALAND. Being questioned on the subject by Sir ROBERT INGLIS, Mr. LABOUCUERE stated, that Government had resolved to take measures which would lead to the establishment of British authority in New Zealand ; but he declined entering into details. The New Zea- land Land Company was in no way recognized by the Government ; but the Company had been informed that Government would not feel themselves bound to support or recognize fraudulent or excessive titles to land obtained from the aborigines, who must be protected. He thought it necessary to say so much, because he perceived from the newspapers, that various wild schemes were afloat, and it might be necessary to interfere to prevent the aborigines from being oppressed or imposed upon. WIGAN ELECTION. A motion by Mr. EWART, for a Committee to inquire into the allegations of' certain electors of Wigan who com- plained of violence and abduction of voters at the last election, was re- jected, by a majority of 81 to 36. LUDLOW ELECTION. ' On Monday, a petition was presented from two *lectors of Ludlow against the return of Mr. Aleock. Ordered to be taken into consideration on the 16th of July.