Manta aIi f laracraingl in parTianunt.

1. TILE REFORM BILL. Previous to the House of Lords going into Committee on the Reform Bill on Monday, the Duke of NEWCASTLE called the attention of Earl Grey to a libellous publication in the Morn- ing Chronicle last week,—namely, the following alleged letter from the King to Earl Grey- " IL—The King writes to Earl Grey, to inform him that lie has taken into

his serious consideration the state and prospects of the Reform and is fully pre- pared to acquiesce in the ailviee of his Ministers to create such a number of Peers as may be necessary to insure the safety of the Bill in the House of Lords."

The Duke asked whether the letter was authentic?

Earl GREY having replied that it was not, the Duke of NEWCASTLE went on to state, that he meant, pursuant to the notice he had given on Friday, to bring before the House the right, or rather the power of the King to exercise his prerogative on such an occasion. He named Thursday ; but on the suggestion of Lord ELLENBOROUGH, he after- wards refrained from naming any particular day : he accompanied this by stating, that he was fully determined to bring forward the motion in some shape. To a question of Earl GREY, he observed, he did not doubt the prerogative, but merely its exercise on such occasions as the present. He gave notice on Thursday for Thursday next.

The Earl of ELDON said,'the prerogative was to be used for the good of the country. If it were used to carry a bill which was not for the interests of the people, the prerogative might continue to exist, but the Crown would soon cease to do so.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE hoped the Chancellor would instruct pro- ceedings to be taken in respect of the libellous letter.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the letter was declared to be an idle fic- tion, and, as such, was not worthy of the notice of the House. Besides, it neither belonged to his official duty to order a prosecution, nor was it proper for their Lordships to prejudge a case on which they might be called to decide as the supreme tribunal.

Earl RODEN observed, that he would rather that the King should vacate the throne than create Peers in order to carry the Reform Bill. Its consequences no man could foresee. When it passed, the People would demand a cheap Government, and how could they get a.cheap Government under a Monarchy?

The Earl of MALMESBURY wished to know whether the blow at the independence of the Peers was averted, or only suspended ? If only suspended, their concession of the Reform Bill would not preserve their independence; the creation would take place as soon as it was passed. He admitted that a great majority of the nation were in favour of the Bill, but there was also a most respectable minority against it ; and he trusted the House would do nothing to forfeit the support of that minority.

The Earl of WixcHrr.sEA said he would rest satisfied with recording his sentiments that the House had ceased to be an independent branch of the Legislature. The country was in a state of delusion ; it was controlled by a tyrannical press ; but it would one day recover its senses, and do justice to the part which he and his friends had acted. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he was determined to pursue the course he had originally taken. If other Peers chose to abstain from attend- ing in their places, he would attend in his. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to know if' Earl Grey had powers to create what Peers he pleased: if so, he would withdraw from the House. The Marquis said, Lord Mulgrave had threatened• to read to the Duke of Wellington every night his Grace's protest ; he would in a similar manner read the following extract from Lord Grey's • speech on the 13th July 1827— They had been threatened with a worse bill if the present was not carried. He hoped their Lordships would not, therefore, -shrink from their duty i that they would not shrink from examining and scrutinizing the bill most ngidly, with a firm resolution to alter and amend it if requisite; and if a worse bill were brought forward, he trusted they would meet at with their most strenuous opposition. He had not said so much in consequence of the observi tions which had been made respecting the biil, as to the consequences with with h they were threatened from its rejection. " As to that, I will now only say, that I look upon the power of the Crown to create Peers as a public trust, to be exer.ised only for the public advantage ; and if it does come to an encounter between tlis House and a great part of the population of the country, my part is taken : I am resolved, come what may, to stand or fall by the order to which 1 belong ; ai d to the last hour of my existence not to yield one jot ef its rights, independence, and privileges."

Lord GAGE said, the question now was a moral; not a patical one—

the question was, would they become parties to destriu tion of the Constitution ? He called on the Anti-Reform Peers to be firm.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM contended, that though D rl Grey re- signed office because the King had declined to create Peels, they had no reason to assume that the King had broken his Royal ward on Earl Grey's resuming office.

The Earl of Wieonow said, he voted against the secord reading ; but, seeing that the Bill had been sent up by so large a majc rity of the Commons, he did not intend to resist the principle of the Bill in Com- mittee, although he did support Lord Lyndhurst's amendment. He thought those who planned the Bill should have the management of it, and the credit or discredit that attached to it. He would tile no share in the Committee merely to thwart Ministers.

The Earl of CARNARVON recommended calmness of temper and moderation.

The Duke of NewcAsrlx begged, as a favour, that Earl Giey would tell him whether he would allow of any alteration in Committee.

Earl GREY said, he would discuss any alterations that were pro- posed ; if they appeared beneficial, lie would assent to them—if not, he would oppose them with all his might.

The House having gone into Committee, Lord ELLENBOROUGH rose to state what was the nature of the amend- ments that he meant to propose. He defended his vote on Lord Lynd- hurst's motion, by the argument that the carrying of the second reading had put the House in a totally different position from that which it for- merly occupied. He was then convinced that the House ought not to sanction any amendments which went so to injure the Bill as to prevent its being accepted by the Commons. His object was to make the mea- sure safe and firm. It was for this reason solely that he thought en- franchisement should precede disfranchisement. His principle of en- franchisement was not that of the Bill ; but wherever he saw a town possessing, with population and wealth, a certain peculiarity of interest, that town he was disposed to enfranchise. In this way twenty towns in England would receive two members each, and two towns in Wales one member each. He also proposed to dispense altogether with Schedule B, as he thought, by adding to the towns in that schedule a portion of the inhabitants of the district surrounding each, they might as freely and purely return two members as one. As to the towns in Schedule A, he thought the House pledged to their disfranchisement ; although, he doubted not, by a similar process they also might be safely retained. He read a list of the towns he proposed to enfranchise. They were

Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Sunderland, Wolverhampton, Bolton, Bradford, Blackburn, Halifax, Macclesfield, Stoke-upon-Trent, Stock- port, Stroud, Frome, Huddersfield, Kidderminster, Warrington, Whitby, Hull, and Tynemouth.

He objected to the town qualification, as giving a vote to journey- men artisans, while in the country no agricultural labourer would have a vote. On the Metropolitan districts he would deliver his sentiments when they came to be particularly discussed. The 101. franchise, in these districts, would give a vote to one half of the community. The working of such a system was seen in Westminster, where there had not been a free election for many years. He did not mean to propose any rise in the qualification, as it was looked upon as one of the prin- ciples of the Bill ; but lie should propose that the elector should have resided for the stipulated period in the same premises, so that, however poor, lie should be respectable. The effect of his plan would be to give the Conservative party 136 votes. In small towns, he thought the franchise might be more popular than was proposed by the Bill ; but he had not made up his mind on what was a matter of great difficulty. He would vote for the second reading of the Scotch Bill, for the representation in Scotland really wanted new-modelling ' • but he would oppose the second reading of the Irish Bill, as " a gross fraud and deception," for it went to overturn the Protestant interest, which only the other day the Legislature had passed a great measure to secure.

Lord BROUGHAM replied to the objections to the qualification— What would have been the consequences, if, instead of 101. the qualification had been 20/..? In Sudbury, for instance, the 201. houses were only 59. You must deduct from these the number of persons who would be disqualified, such as females. Deducting one-fourth, there would only be 45 who could by pos- sibility vote ; and a further deduction must be made for non-residence. By placing the qualification at 101., there would be upwards of 300. In Marlow, there were 6,000 inhabitants, and but 50 201. houses, of which only 30 would have a vote. In Penryn and Falmouth, there would be 36; in Truro, 75; Cockermouth, 29; Harwich, 45 ; Warwick, 160; in Wigan, with 20,0001n- habitants only 182 could by possibility vote. As to the towns in Schedules C and I), Leeds had 123,000 inhabitants, and only 5,000101. householders could by possibility vote, supposing all these persons to be resident ; but if the quali- fication were raised to 20/., there would •not be Z400. Wolverhampton, with 67;000 inhabitants, had only between 300 and 400 persons entitled to vote. Birmingham, with 142,000 inhabitants, would-have, with the 204 qualification, from 1,800 to 1,900 persons entitled to vote. He could give still stronger in- stances. Now as to the masters being deprived of the right of voting by their journeymen: in a large town, in one of the manufactories of the greatest respect- ability, of 141 persons, all employed on good wages, how many were entitled to vote by the 101. qualification ?—Just four • and of these four, two were clerks. In another manufactory, consisting of 180 workmen, not one would be entitled to Vote.

Lord WYNFORD said, the effect of the measure would be to place powei in the hands of manufacturers at the expense of agriculturists. He felt'strong objections to Schedule C remaining a part of the Bill : the best way to amend the Bill in this respect, would be to get rid of the schedule altogether, and take up the towns enumerated-in it separately

rid distinctly upon their own merits or demerits. • Lord WHAWICLIFFE enumerated a number of boroughs as being in his

opinion not at all entitled to the distinction intended to be conferred upon those places, on one of three grounds—their importance in point of wealth, in point of Lavine. a separate interest from their neighbours, or in point of extent of population.

To Greenwich he saw not the slightest reason for giving other members than those which so adequately represented the rest of the towns of importance iu the county of Kent. Devouport should be satisfied in sharing the representation with Plymouth. To the Tower Hamlets, Finsbury, and Marylebone, he thought it would be quite sufficient to give a joint r ight to share in r..turning two mem- bers for Middlesex. It ought in the sonic way to abundantly conteut the district of Lambeth by giving its freeholders or constitueney a right to vote for the ekc- tion of members M the borough of Southwark. What separate interest could any of those places plead as not being thus amply represented iu union with their neighbours? Ile should propose ago the exclusimi of the town of Brighter. (" Oh, uh !" said the Duke of Richmond.) He knew the value of that cheer, and the strong reasons why the noble duke was anxious to defend the intere.sts of Brighton in particular ; but he would not only take the right from it, but from another place of fishimedde resort—Cheltenham, because their interests Isere already sufficiently blended with other places in their districts having already representatives. To Obill,ium Bury, and Rochdale, lie had the same reasons for refusing separate members; but lie was for admitting them all to vote for the two members' for the hundred of Salford, as an abundant equiv:dent to any claim they could set up. Chatham he would improve by giving its constituency a right of voting at nceliester. As to Dialler, it had no satisfactory claim; and of Gateshead he lit e‘w enough himself of the place to say it had no other interest than that of =• ewe: front which: it, was only divided by a river. Let them include it within the franchise of the town of Newcastle, if it should be so con- sidered advisable. As to the town of 'Wakefield having two members, he had never heard, even from its friends, that it was not a town fromwhich its wealth and importance, as a manufacturing place, were going fast ; nor a reason for its having the franclie, except the strange one, that it was a great corn-market- an interest which could be amply represented by the several York county mem- bers. Walsall was so immediately in the neighbourhood of Wolverhampton, that it might, with great propriety, be represented by being admitted to the exercise of the franchise for the latter town. The last he should propose to ex- clude from a separate representation by members of its own, was a town in York- shire, which, from his own knowledge, thoughta great whaling port, had no interest distinct from that of other Yorkshire seaport, represented. On the sub- ject of Metropolitan members, he saw great objections to these persons, eighteen in number, being in a (louse of Parliament, sitting in the immediate neighbour- hood of consti:uents who had such convenient facilities for calling upon them on the spur of the moment, when passion ran high, to give an account of their conduct, whenever they gave what their constituents might term an unpopular vote.

Lord SEAGRAVE said, Lord Ellenborough could hardly object to Cheltenham; for he had recently formed an Anti-Reform club at Gloucester, and had fixed on Cheltenham as the place of meeting.

The Earl of Wixeniasaa. spoke against the 101. qualification, and also against the town voters for counties clause. Ile thought Lord El- lenborough had made a very proper selection of the towns to he enfran- chised : none should be enfranchised that had not a distinct interest.

Lord DURHAM remarked, that Lord Ellenborough must have pro- posed his amendment merely to place his sentiments on record. The best mode of discussing the Schedules, was to take the towns in their order. Lord Ellenborough spoke of his plan as final, and it began by cutting off from a share in the representation, 20 towns to which the promise of a share had been held out, and which the House of Ctitr: mons, as far as it could, had already realized.

After a few words from the Earls of HADD[NGTON and DARNLEY, Lord ELLENEOROUGH declining to divide the House on his amendment, the original motion, that Schedule C stand part of the Bill, was agreed to. .

To the towns of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, no objection was offered.

Lord ELLENBOROUGII objected to Greenwich, that it would be a mere nomination borough of the Ordnance and the Admiralty. Wool- wich was a wretched town, composed of nothing but publichouses and petty shops ; Greenwich was no better; and Deptford was as bad as- either.

Lord BROUGHAM observed, that the population of the proposed borough was 63,000, its assessed taxes 22,0001., and it would furnish 6,000 voters.

One of the chief objections insisted on by the enemies of the Bill, was the difficulty of obtaining seats under it for the members of the Government. They also saw great merit in nomination boroughs. But now the noble baron ob- jected that the members of the Government might obtain seats under the Bill, and that Greenwich, Woolwich, and Deptford would, in their union, beconien close borough of the worst description. Why of the worst description, he did not know : it would not put those places in the hands of an individual, to be dealt with for his own advantage and profit, but, at the worst, would place them at the disposal of the Government.

Greenwich was agreed to, and Sheffield, and Sunderland.

On Devonport being put, Lord ELLENBOROUGH wished an adjounr.. ment ; which was supported by Lord WYNFORD.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE thought it was quite a mockery to proeeed with the Bill as they were doing. He would propose that LoM

Shaftesbury should, pro forma, merely read through the clauses of the Bill at once, as all debate upon them was rendered farcical and ridiet- Ions. (Cheers and laughter). Lord ELLENSOROUGH said, he was sorry to hear those cheers. If Ministers would not allow a reasonable time for discussion, he would take care that the Bill should not pass for six months.

Lord WYNFORD said, if they allowed Devonport to stand in Sae- dule C, they must prepare to pass Schedule B. It would be betteeto,

join Devonport to Plymouth. • Some further conversation took place on the subject, but no diviSiOn, ensued. Devonport was in consequence placed in the Schedule. Wol- verhampton was added without remark, and the House resumed.

On Tuesday, the question that the Tower Hamlets stand 'as pait of

Schedule C being put, ro

The Earl of CARNARVON rose to express his dissent from it. He'dC- nied that the Metropolis required any additional members; bile his chief objection was to the creation of so numerous a constituency— ,

Were their Lordships aware,.that the 10/. feinchise rate would • creati tint less than 132,000 electors in the Metropolitan districts? So that, if they took into consideration the rapid rate at which small houses were increasing in those districts,:they might count upon not less than some 200,000. voters in an elec- tion or two front the next. As a mere question, then, of police,- lie would ask was it safe to impart an active and dangerous existence to such an enormous multitude of comparatively rudely informed and easily excited electors ? Let them look at the consequences to which a similar state of things had led iu Paris, which, owing to the circumstance of its containing a numerous—that is, a low- rated—constituency, became very soon the focus of popular discontent and popular dictation, that once overthrew the monarchy, and at present sei iously endangered it. If it was the object of Ministers to perpetuate and increase a hundredfold the power of the Clubs and Political Unions, which his Majesty, to his honour, had recently refused to recognize, they could not hit upon a more efficacious expedient than the Metropolitan clause; by means of which those Unions would, at no distant day, be enabled to shackle the freedom of Parlia- ment, overawe the Executive, and ultimately to subvert the monarchy itself.

He did not hope that his oppOsition would avail ; but if the votes wore taken by ballot, he was sure it would have a large majority in both Houses.

Lord Duanam said, all history .proved that the violence consequent on popular excitement was in the inverse ratio of representation. They Lad heard of tumultuous assemblages in Marylebone and elsewhere, but they bad heard of none in Westminster.

Why? simply because Westminster was faithfully represented. There was no lack of zeal on the .part of its inhabitants—quite the contrary; but their calmness amid the stirring scene around them was

the supreme of power; 'Towns might reposiug on its own right arm," the arm of representation.

He .stated, with great distinctness, the argument in favour of the clause drawn from the history of the representation. When London, in the 40th Henry III. first received its right of returning members, Westminster was a village ; as it increased in numbers, it received a similar right ; as slid Southwark for a similar reason. In Mr. Pitt's plan of 1785, seventy-two members were to be distributed among the Coun- ties and the Metropolitan districts ; and amona.a the peculiar advantages that Pitt reckoned on, was that his projected increase. Would preclude the mischievous consequences of popular excitement, by its "admitting to the right of suffrage a large body of householders." Lord Durham spoke at length of the claims of the Metropolis from its population, its wealth, its commerce, the revenue received at its port— In 1377, the population of the Metropolis was 35000 ; in 1700, it had in- creased to 166,400; at present, exclusive of seamen and strangers, it amounted to 1,474,000 souls. Now, the population of England was 11,557,000,—that is; the population of the Metropolis was, in round numbers, about one-eleventh of the entire population of England ; in other words, if population were taken as the basis of representation, the Metropolis was entitled to one-eleventh, while in point of fact it would enjoy but one-thirty-fourth. Then it was to be borne in mind, that London was not only relatively, but positively the wealthiest portion of the empire. This was evident from one fact, the cost of maintaining its poor, which in 1831 amounte:lto 681,5671.,—that is, about 10s. in the pound ; a low rate, when it was recollected how much more the maintenance of the poor must cost in the Metropolis than in the agricultural districts. This was plain from a comparison of the poor-rates in Norfolk, Suffolk, and other agri- cultural counties. The population in Norfolk was 159,000, and the poor-rates 29,91101.,—that is, about 15s. 6d. in the pound. The population of Suffolk 296,000, the rate 18s. in the pound ; both much higher positively and relatively than the 10s. rate of London. Then let them take into consideration the trade of London, as determined by its mercantile navy and contribution to the public revenue. The entire mercantile navy of Great Bmitain and Ireland in 1829 was 19,000 ships, with a tonnage of 2,199,000 ; of which London contained more than one-fourth, and one-seventh more than the entire shipping of Ireland. Again, London paid 20 per cent. more Customs and Excise than all the rest of the country ; it contributed 10,211,0001. to the Customs revenue, while the total from the other parts of the country was but 8,505,000/. If, then, the con- tribution to the public revenue be a criterion of the pretensions of a place to the right of representation, it followed that London should enjoy 20 per cent. more than the rest of England, and sixteen times more than Ireland, it contri- buting sixteen times more to the public revenue. And yet Ireland sent 105 members to the Commons ; while London, a place of sixteen times more im- portanCe in a financial point of view, was to possess but 16, and even that num- ber cavilled at.

• There was another point in which the Metropolis took decidedly the lead of the rest of the empire—intelligence— -

Of the numberless worksprinted and published in London, at least one-third was consumed by its own inhabitants; from two-thirds to three-fourths of the Metropolitan newspapers were read iu London, and full one-half retained in it. .These were strong facts, on which it would he easy to expatiate, but which must strike them all as decisive of the intelligence and thirst for knowledge of the inhabitants of the Metropolis. Then, no town possessed so many literary in- stitutions; in no town were there so many able men, eminent in science and literature, daily employed in lecturing to attentive and crowded audiences.

To show that no constituency could possibly be more interested in the preservation of property, Lord Durham noticed, that of 85,000 di- vidend warrants issued by the Bank, 70,000 belonged to persons resid- ing in London. He noticed the numerous wealthy streets and squares which gave consequence to the Pancras district ; the manufactories in Lambeth ; the docks ; the warehouses; the silk trade of the Tower Hamlets— On a comparison of the four Metropolitan districts with the four most popu- lous among the other places to be enfranchised, it would be found that the former contained 916,250 inhabitants, while the total pophlation of Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, and Sheffield, only amounted to 543,000. The Metropoli- tan districts contained 144,000 houses, the four towns mentioned, 116,000; of these houses there were in London 84,488 worth 10/. ; in the/country 30,000. But the difference in point of the amount of assessed taxes paid by these places reipectively, was still more striking ; being, in the Metropolitan districts, 647,000/. while the four great towns in question paid only 100,0001. It would be seen dat the population of the Metropolitan districts was almost double that of the four most populous places in Schedule C; the houses more numerous, especially qualifying tenements, which were nearly as 3 to 1 ; but, above all, the assemed taxes were as 6 to 1. After this, could it be pretended that the Metro- polilirdistricts were undeserving of representation?

Lord WYNFORD thought we ought to adhere to the practice of our attestors, and give representatives to corporations and guilds. If we gaol the franchise to manufacturing towns, we should give it to masters, nor to their workmen. The Bill gave the right of representation to a map of paupers, who had no right to it, and could not use it judiciously. Heald, however, he would not divide against the clause ; recollecting the humiliating situation in which be was placed, he would abstain from making what would be an empty show of opposition.

. On Lord ELLENBOROCCIL however, declaring his intention to divide, Lord WYNFORD said, though he would not himself divide the House, he would vote with any Peer that did.

The conversation was continued for some time by Lord BROUGHAM, the Earls of HARROWBY and CARNARVON, and the Marquis of Sams- BURY. The House at length divided on the call of Lord WHARNCL1FFE for the original question, 91 ; against it, 36; majority for Ministers, 55. Finsbury was added without discussion.

On the question of Marylebone, the Duke of NEWCASTLE said— He did not quarrel with the noble lords opposite for bringing forward a Re- form Bill, revolutionary as it was, for they had always supported Reform; but he did quarrel with noble lords on that side of the house who had turned round, after a harlequin fashion, on this subject, and who expected him to turn with them. That he certainly should' not do. He hoped that those noble lords, seeing that the course which they had taken could lead to no earthly good, and that it was one by which no one in the country could possibly be deceived, would abandon it, and desist from a line of preceeding which would only serve to render that House ridiculous, even in the eves of old women. For his part, he was determined to take no further part in 'those discussions on the Retlitin Bill. On the contrary, he would propose, for the sake of the character of the House, that this solemn mockery of free debate should have an end ; that Lord Shaftesbury should read throngIt all the clauses of the Bill at once, and that it should be passed without further note or comment. He would give no further countenance in his own person to such a disgraceful proceeding.

Marylebone was added, after an observation, in reply to the Duke of Newcastle, from Lord WHARNCLIFFE.

Lambeth, Bolton, Bradford, Blackburn, Brighton (after a few re- marks from the Earl of Haimixtrrox against, and the Duke of Rum- 310ND in favour of it), Halifirx, and Macclesfield, were then mudded to the Schedule.

On the question of Oldham, an extremely warm conversation arose.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH suggested the adoption of the original plan, of giving two members to Manchester and. Salford, two to Bolton, and six to the county of Lancaster.

Lord DURHAM said, the original plan had been departed from at the suggestion of those with whom it was understood Lord Ellenborough acted.

While this conversation was proceeding, Lords WixcniLsEa and KENYON entered the House. The former lamented the division that had taken place— Such a course of proceeding could only be pleasing to the noble earl opposite, who had trampled on the liberties and character of that House. He wished to know from him whether he would consent to the slightest modification in the details of the Bill, svithout even at all affecting any of its principles. He was desirous to know, for instance, whether, if a judicious alteration should be pro- posed in that part of the Bill which gave to the voters in towns the right of voting for the counties, lie would object to it?

Earl GREY said, the same question, in the same words, was now asked for the tenth or twelfth time. He regretted the opinion ex- pressed by Lord 'Winchilsea of the House ; but be had expressed the same opinion of the majority on the Catholic Bill, and even declared be would never again enter Parliament. Referring to an expression that had fallen from Lord Ellenborough, that the House was in a diffe- rent position from the postponement of the disfranchisement clauses, Earl Grey said— The postponement of the disfranchising clause, upon which such important consequences had so lately taken place, was described at the time by the noble lords opposite as most trivial—as .a matter of mere form ; and the greatest sur- prise was expressed by them that Ministers should divide upon it, and still more that they should, finding the division against them, resign their offices. Now he had, at the time, and ever since, contended that that question was neither trivial nor unimportant,—that it was one which might be fatal to the principle of the Bill, and that it was forcing upon the Ministers the adoption of an en- tirely different course from that which had been pursued by the House of Com- mons. The statement now made by the noble baron fully justified the correct- ness of that opinion.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA repeated his question respecting the free- holders in towns. Earl GREY replied, that, as at present advised, he saw no occasion for alteration ; but Whatever alterations were proposed, he would hear them and discuss them.

The Earl of WINCH1LSEA would tell their Lordships, that it was quite hopeless to expect that any amendment which should be proposed by any noble lord at his side of the house would for a moment be en- tertained or acceded to by the noble earl opposite.

The course which the noble earl was pursuing was perfectly dictatorial ; and he thought it would be better at once that the Chairman should read the rest of the Bill through, and that noble lords opposite should carry it just as they pleased. This Bill, unlike another great bill which had been before that House, would be carried by the exercise of the highest prerogative of the Crown. It was useless to tell him, that when the independence of that House was about to be destroyed, it made any difference whether one hundred more members walked into that house or that one hundred members walked out of it.

[ Here a voice on the Ministerial side of the House called " Ques- tion !"] The Earl of WINCHILSEA—" Let that individual who has cried ' Question' stand forth and face me." Lord LYTTLETON immediately rose. He said he Cried "Question," because he thought Lord Winchilsea was introducing topics that were irrelevant to the question before the Committee. The Earl of W1NCHILSEA defended his conduct upon the Catholic Relief Bill, and stated that his opinions upon that great and important measure were still unchanged. It was true that he had made a declara- tion of his intention never again to enter the House ; but he bad come back to his place upon the suggestions of friends, upon whose judg- ment he implicitly relied. He would not now retire into private life, for he knew he possessed a character which would find respect from many of his fellow countrymen. He would go among his fellow countrymen, and show them the blow which had been struck at their rights and liberties. Lord SUFFIELD said that the only question before the Committee was, whether Oldham was to be enfranchised-or not? lie thought it had been clearly shown that that town was entitled to send two mem- bers to Parliament.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE denied that Lord Lyndhurst's amendment had any thing to do with the disfranchising part of the Bill. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he would certainly be inclined to agree with the Earl of Winchilsea, that it would be better at once to pass the Bill without any further discussion, did he not hope that yet some improvements might be made in it by the labour and pains which noble lords on his side of the house seemed inclined to bestow upon it. He did not wish to press his opposition further to the -Bill, in order to save the noble earl opposite the trouble of another doleful journey to Windsor. (A laugh.) He would rather have the little honesty he possessed, than the unconstitutional power which the noble earl had assumed.

The Lord CHANCELLOR endeavoured to bring back the attention of the House to the question of Oldham.

Lord KENYON said, if they looked at Schedule C, they would find that the cotton-trade in Lancashire had a very large representation without Oldham.

They would find Manchester, Bolton, Bradford, Blackburn [Earl Grey- " Not BradfLrd"], Blackburn [Earl Grey repeated Not Bradford."] "I beg the noble earl will not interrupt me ; I will not permit the noble earl to in- terrupt me. I repeat, I will not permit the noble earl to interrupt me. I ant an independent member of this House, and if I ant to be interrupted by any member, the last to do it is the noble earl, who is endeavouring to destroy the independence of this House." (" Hear !" from the Opposition.) Earl GREY—" I merely meant to inform the noble baron, that Brad- ford is not connected with the cotton-trade, and that it is not in Lan- cashire."

Lord KENYON said, that the point was wholly immaterial- " The intent of the Bill was, that the monarchy should be destroyed, by forcing the measure on a reluctant Sovereign, by a threat, that if he would not consent to the Bill, he should be left alone, without any Ministers to conduct his affairs. Conduct so unmanly, so atrocious"— Earl GREY—" So atrocious ! I will ask your Lordships whether this is language fit to be used in this House ? For my own part, I reject the terms used by the noble lord with contempt and scorn." (Loud cheers front the Ministerial benches.) Lord KENYON—" I rise to repeat the words. I consider the conduct of the noble earl unmanly and atrocious, to call upon the Crown to do that which would destroy the independence of a branch of the Legislature. ( Cheers from the Opposition.) Whether the noble earl think these terms justifiable or not, as this House has not yet lost the privilege of freedom of speech, I repeat, it is a most atrocious act to call upon the Crown to exercise its prerogative for the purpose of destroying the independence of one branch of the Legislature. After the terms used by the noble earl"—( Cries of " Order!" and " Hear !") Earl GREY—' I again say, that any thing more unparthunentary, any thing more disorderly, than the manner in which the noble lord has thought proper to apply those words to me, I never heard since I have had a place in this House. It is for your Lordships to act as you think proper : fiw me, I shall be content to repel these terms with all the indignation, with all the scorn, and with all the contempt I can express." (Loud cheering.)

He defended himself from the imputation of having resigned office for any other reason than that he could no longer hold it with honour; and now he had returned to office, he enjoyed the same confidence with the King as ever he did. He concluded-

" More than this I will not say, except to repeat to the noble lord who has made so improper, so indecent an attack upon me, and has indulged in the use of terms which have no relation to the subject before the House,—the only question being whether Oldham shall be inserted in the clause, which can afford no excuse for these general topics of declamation,—that I reject the terms he has applied to me, with scorn and contempt." (Loud and continued cheering.) The Earl of WINCIIILSEA said, Lord Grey had been very sensitive. Addresses to the Crown had been, he might say, in a degree sanctioned by the noble earl, which were seditious, inflammatory, and treasonable. (" Order, order !") Earl GREY asked, did the noble earl charge him with bringing for- ward or encouraging treasonable addresses to his Majesty ?

The Earl of WismcirmsEa. did not accuse the noble earl of directly sanctioning and encouraging those attacks upon the Sovereign ; but he said that the most seditious calumnies and treasonable publications had been put forth in every part of the country under the name of addresses to the Crown, and the Government had done nothing to check them.

The Duke of CUMBERLAND rose to allay the heat to which Oldham had given occasion— His sole object in rising was, to implore noble lords to tranquillize themselves, and to carry on their debates temperately, in the present state of the country. This was not the way either to support the Bill or to oppose it. He took the liberty of stating to their Lordships, that he should have nothing to du with the discussion if this proceeding in the House were continued. He certainly did not approve of the Bill ; but God forbid that he should oppose it in such a man- ner as would be productive of more harm than good.

The Duke's appeal was heard; and Oldham, together with the other towns in Schedule C, were added to the clause, and the whole clause added to the Bill.

Ashton-under-Line, Chatham, and Cheltenham, were then voted in

Schedule D ; and at twelve o'clock the Committee closed for the night. On Wednesday, when Dudley was proposed to be placed in Schedule Lord ELLENBOROUGH objected to it, as having a tendency to divide

the country into electoral districts.

Lord KING denied this; and added, that the jealousy of the great towns was most misplaced ; under the Bill they had not their propor- tion of the representation. Legacy-duty had been paid in one year upon 48,000,0001.: taking the duration of a generation at 33 years, this would give 1,500,000,000/. as the amount of personal property in the empire ; which, rated at 5 per cent. gave 75,000,000/. ; being at least double the amount of the rent derived from landed property.

The Earl of MAtralesurav observed, that, under the Property-tax, 5,090,000L had been paid by landlords, and 3,000,000/. by tenants. The gross amount of agricultural produce was calculated at 216,000,000L ; which, divided by three, would give the rent.

The Earl of CARNARVON remarked, that the personal property of

landlords and tenants was included in Lord King's estimate. The per- sonal property of the kingdom was not all vested in the large towns. Dudley was agreed to. Prow was also agreed to, withoutremark.

On Gateshead being put, the Marquis of LONDONDERRY objected to it, as increasing the already disproportionate share of representation possessed- by Durham— When he saw the noble earl at the head of his Majesty's Government, thought little more than twelve months in office, showering down situations, places, and preferments, upon members of his own family, even to the extent of one of the most valuable of the bishoprics,—and when he also witnessed the acquisition of blue.ribands,* and other ribands and honours, within the same short space of time, iu a manner not at all palatable to the public,—he was induced to look with a scrupulous eye to other parts of their line of conduct. In that view, he I came to cousider the case of the county of Durham as affected by the provisions of the Bill now under discussion ; and he found, that out of the ten members given to the county of Durham, eight were allocated the Northern which was the smallest division of the county, and only two members reserved for the Southern and largest district. This distribution he considered to be unfair and unjust; but it was probably accounted for, when it was remembered that the property of Lord Durham was situated in the Northern wards of the county. • The Marquis proceeded to say, that Gateshead was a filthy spot, in- habited by the vilest class of the people, wholly unworthy of the repre- sentative franchise. He attempted to show the truth of this, by the ravages committed there by the Cholera. Stockton-upon-Tees had a much better claim to representation. In a space of four miles and a half diameter, Lord Durham, whose collieries surrounded Gateshead, had created four new boroughs with seven members. Lord DURHAM said, he was almost ashanied to be compelled to declare so obvious a truth, as that no man was fit for office who would permit his personal interest to bias a great public measure like this. He would have relinquished office sooner than permit his private interest to he studied in the Reform Bill, had his colleagues been base enough to attempt such a thing— The number of members allocated to the county of Durham, was not greater than it was entitled to by the present amount of population ; and Lord London lorry would find, on reference to works of authority, that in the reign of Charles the Second, when the population of the county was not any thing approaching to what it was at present, it was even then proposed that this county of Durham should have ten members ; and, what would perhaps be thought more remark- able, the town of Gateshead was among the number of those towns it was then proposed to enfranchise. He detailed the claims of Gateshead— It contained 15,200 inhabitants, paying assessed taxes to the amount of 2,0061., and it had 750 101. houses. Stockton contained only 7,991 inhabitants, and it was equally deficient in respect of qualification. The increase of members to the county of Durham was in no respect equal to that made in the county of Lmcaster, Winne in the same area as that named by the noble marquis, it would be found ;hat no loss than seven places were -enfranchised, by which twelve additional members were given. Gateshead was not a mere suburb of Newcastle : ever since the rear 1100 constant efforts had been made by the corporation of Newcastle to attach Gateshead to Newcastle, but in vain. When Dudley,'the celibratial Duke of Northumberland, usurped the revenues of the see of Durham he attached Gateshead to Newcastle ; but that arrangement dial not last more than six months. Its trade was perfiaalv different from that of Newcastle. And as a proof that the poverty in Gateshead was not greater than that in Newcastle, he could state, that the average amount of its poor-rates was always infinitely less than that of Newcastle.

He concluded by stating, that he received no accession of power from the arrangement ; and he had neither friend nor relative to recom- mend to the county, if he had received any. The arrangement had been made solely with a view to the good of the country.

Gateshead was then agreed to ; as were Huddersfield, Kidderminster, Kendal, and the other towns of the schedule; and the entire clause mudded to the Bill.

The other clauses, up to the 12th, were also agreed to. On the 12th, a conversation took place, on the propriety of making York the place of election for the North Riding.

Lord Baouonam admitted, that Northallerton would be more con- venient in point of situation. The clause was postponed.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH proposed a clause to allow six members to the county of Lancaster, in order to give more power to the agricultural interest in that county.

LORD BROUGHAM observed that this would lead to the disfranchise- ment of other boroughs. Besides, it was unnecessary - as the Bill is,troeosedn, t.the members for Lancashire would be more agricultural than at

The Committee divided: for the amendment, 15; against it. 70: majority for Ministers, 55.

The succeeding clauses up to the 18th, were then agreed to. On this clause, some conversation arose, on the abolition, at the decease of the present holder, of forty-shilling life freeholds.

The Marquis of SALISBURY asked Earl Grey, on what grounds he proposed to take away the franchise of forty-shilling freeholders for

life.

Earl GREY—" My answer is, that the rights of freeholders are pre- served for life." (A laugh.) Lord WHARNCLIFFE believed the object of the clause was to abolish annuity freeholds ; but he feared as it stood, it would abolish'boid fide freeholds.

After some further conversation, it was agreed that the clause should be postponed, for the purpose of reconsidering its wording.

On Thursday, on the Lords going into Committee, Lord BacktonAst offered clause 18th, with the verbal amendments he had introduc&I into it in order to prevent any misinterpretation of its object. It wars agreed to, after a few objections from Lord WYNFORD.

Clauses 19th, 20th, 21st, 22d, and 23d, were also agreed to.

On clause 24th, which prevents persons from voting for a county in respect of any premises which give or may give to the occupant a right of voting for a borough; Lord WHARNCLIFFE proposed an amendment, in what he termed a spirit of general friendliness to the Bill; the ori- ginal clause having, as Lord Wharncliffe argued, been introduced by parties who were generally unfriendly to the Bill. The amendment run thus-

" That notwithstanding any thing hereinbefore contained, no person shall be 'entitled to vote in the election of any knight or knights of the shire to serve in any future Parliament, in respect of any estate or interest in any lands, here- ditaments, or tenements, situate in any city, town, or borough, entitled to return members to serve in Parliament."

Such a clause, he said, would remove what he looked on as an abuse, —namely, allowing the freeholders of such towns as Birmingham and Coventry to command the returns for the county. He, however, was content with throwing out the suggestion ; he was quite aware, that, In the present state of the country, the Opposition had no power to force their alterations.

Lord BROUGHAM said, in the single point of view in which it had been exhibited by Lord Wharncliffe, he might feel disposed to concur with him ; but, looking to the Bill in all its bearings, he must adhere to the clause as it stood. By it and by the following clauSe, an im- mense number of freeholders were taken out of the county representa- tion, because an immense number of them were owners or occupiers of 10/. houses. On the other hand, a very great increase was given to the purely agricultural class of county voters, by giving the franchise to copyholders, leaseholders, and tenants-at-will. Coupling the restric- tion on the one band with the extension on the other, the objection which-Lord Wharncliffe wished to remove was reduced to a minimum. In Lancashire, he was rather understating than overstating the case, when he said that two of the members must be returned by the agri- cultural interest solely ; and yet Lancashire was an extreme case. Nor ought it to be forgotten, that the Boundaries Bill would in every case take a number of voters from the county, and add them to the boroughs. If the interests of the commercial and agricultural part of the counnu- nily were separate, they were each amply provided for ; but the great virtue of the Bill was, that it mixed and blended two interests which it was most impolitic to regard as inimical to each other.

Lord Ws-mermen objected to the working of the original clause, and also to its wording: Instead of " house, warehouse, counting-house, or shop," it ought to have been "house, warehouse, counting-house, shop, or other building." As the clause stood, there was scarce a borough elector in the kingdom who would not bare two votes. Lord Wynfurd went on to eulogize nomination boroughs, as essential to the support of the agricultural interests, which were identified with the interests of the country. If the Bill passed as it at present stood, there would not be 100 agricultural members in England. The grand security of the land was taken away with the nomination boroughs. He thought those who voted for the second reading, on time supposition that altera- tions would be permitted in Committee, should rally on the third, and reject the Bill.

The Bishop of LoNnox thought, looking to the present state of the country, such a suggestion could /mot be safely entertained.

Lord HOLLAND asked where Lord Wynford had discovered the nomination boroughs to be the supports of the 'ended interest? The no- mination boroughs were the subject of every-day barter. They belonged to any interest that chose to buy them. The generel effect of the Bill on the manufacturing and agrieultural interests was best sloven by the plain fact, that it took 65 members from the Boroughs, and added 7t members to the Counties.

The conversation on the clause was continued by Lords Woarx- CLIFFE, MALMESBURY, rorARSVICK, Si:At:neve, and others.

The Earl of IiAuxoa remarked on the wholesale virtues of Schedule

A. It was essential to the commercial interests ; the Sugar ds could not subsist without it ; the East Indies were represent it in Par- liament by it solely ; without it the Bank must perieh ; and now it appeared that the landed interest, were the Schedule carried, would in- evitably be ruined !

Time Committee at length divided : for the original clause, 84; against it, 23; majority fur Ministers, 61.

The 2511 and 26th clauses were then agreed to, without comment. On the 101. qualification clause, Lord Wusitscueee stated that he would have an amendment to propose, the discussion of which would occupy a considerable time. Earl GREY therefore eereed to an zuljourn- ment, at 12 o'clock.

On the 27th (the 101. clause) being read last night, the Earl cf Hanonseroer said he had intended to more an amendment in it, but would defer it until the report.

Lord WHARNCLIFIE admitted that he no longerthought the qualifica- tion too low, except in a few large towns. If it were restricted to a Joni fide 101. rent as tested by the rates, it might be unobjectionable : he thought, however, as the clause at present stood, it would lead to infinite trouble and confusion in the working.

Lord BROUGHAM admitted that there were difficulties in the plan, but none that had been hitherto proposed as substitutes were free from greater difficulties. The mode of ascertaining voters by poor-rate valu- ation would strike off no less than 107,000 from the entire number. The inconvenience in the working would be got rid of after the first election.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, as the clause stood, the overseer hind the power of striking off any voter he chose. The Earl of MAT MESBURY concurred in this view of it. Lord WyNeoan thought it would lead to false swearing. Lord MALMESBIMY said, if there was a happy spot in the land after the Bill passed, it would be where there was no repre- sentation, no manufactures, and no unions.

The clause was passed.

Clauses 28th, 29th, and 30th, followed.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY objected to the distance of seven miles, as fixed by clause 31st : it would deprive many of his tenants of a vote, while it gave votes to those of Lord Durham. He called on Lord Durham to explain, to the satisfaction of the House and the country, why such a distance had been fixed on.

The Marquis of CEANRICARDE thought the call ought not to be obeyed : such insinuations were not worthy of an answer.

Lord Duneram observed, that at that hour [ten o'clock] there was usually infused into their debates an excess of animation— Lord Londonderry, presuming, probably, on what would have been his own course, had taken leave to suppose that Lord Durham had turned the power of the situation in which he was placed, to the purposes of private jobbing. He trusted it iv is not necessary for him to say that he was not one of those. Every one was not of the same frame of mind on such subjects: he had never felt an inclination to traffic with the liberties of his country. - With respect to the boundary of seven miles, he knew nothing of it till long after it was fixed; and lie cared so little for it, that if the noble marquis moved that it should be only one or two miles, he might command his vote : he had no desire to drive his tenants to the poll, whatever might be the practice or the wishes of other noble lords on such subjects.

The Earl of RADNOR was surprised that Lord Londonderry should quarrel wish the mystical number seven: were there not seven days of the week, seven wonders of the world, seven wise men—was not seven the favourite hour for dinner ? ( Cheers and laughter.)

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said be was unable to answer the yells and cheers of the Ministerial side, but he was determined to hold out to the last.

The Duke of RICHMOND declare4 that he was the original proposer of the seven miles.

After some bandying of compliments and banter about bravery, dis- cretion and indiscretion, between the Duke and the Marquis, the clause passed. So did Clauses 33d and 34th.

In a conversation on the latter, Seaham was mentioned ; and the Duke of RICHMOND having observed, that in respect of Seaham, Lord Lon- donderry could hardly be looked on as an impartial judge, the Marquis said he spurned with contempt this attack upon him. The Duke of RICHMOND said—

Their Lordships could scarcely wonder that people out of doors should say that the Lords were guilty of atrocious acts, when, in that house, one lord was heard to charge another, in the fitco of their Lordships, with atrocious conduct; nor could they blame people out of doors for saying that their Lordships were worthy of ceetempt, when a noble marquis spurned with contempt another member of that House.

The Marquis of Londonderry was time last man he would desire to insult; but assuredly if he did so, it would not be in that House.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY apologized to the Duke and the House.

The rest of the Clauses, from the 3Ith to the end, were then agreed to.

Lord WYNIORD gave notice of a clause to prevent bribery ; • and the Marquis of SALISBURY said he would move that the voters of Schedule A should, during their respective lives, have votes for the county where the disfranchised borough was situated.

The House then adjourned to Wednesday, because of the King's Birth-day on Monday and the anniversary of the Restoration on Tuesday.

2. Sco-rett Rzronst BILL. On the order for the second reading, on Monday, the Loan -ADVOCATE stated, that tl:e principle of the present was the sauce as of the former Bill; nor were the alterations of detail numerous or important. It had been determined to separate Loris in elrgyleshire from Bute. There were also some altcr.:tions respecting tl:e borough qualification, and the machinery of the bill, and in the re- gistry of votes. The duty of the registry bad been transferred from the Sheriff-Clerk to the Town-Clerk in the case of boroughs. For the purpose of introducing these and other minor alterations, he wished, after the 13111 was read a second time, that it should be committed pro firma, and afterwards printed. Sir GE0i1GE CLEBN said, he would not divide the House ; he would content himself with protesting against the whole measure. Ile hoped sincerely that the mischief it was calculated to effect might be averted.

Mr. F. PALMER said, having many years ago submitted a motion to the House on time subject of Scotch Reform, be had acquired a right to sprat: upon any bill for that purpose. Ide proceeded to allude to the well-known cases of Messrs. Muir and Palmer— These gentlemen had encouraged the People of Scotland to petition for their rights, and for this they were punished. Their object, to quote their own words, wee—to claim for themselves a full, fair, and free representation of the People in Parliament. These very words were now ringing- from one end of Scotland to the other ; and for using them were Muir and Palmer sent to Botany Bay. They were sentenced to be tree:sporty:1 for using words that were now idolised throughout Scotland. They were treated as if thev had been guilty of 'highway robbery. They were sent to the hulks ; where.be had visited Mr. Palmer, and found him loaded with irons, and placed amidst housebreakers, foot- pads, and highwaymen. These men were punished for saying that Scotland was entitled to a full and fair representation. That was forty years ago. What a change had now taken place ! The actions for which men were then punished were now idolized throughout the country. What had brought about this change? Had not persecution tried to prevent it? Bari ;:went had been tried; every punishment had been tried • but they had not prevented the effect of those principles which were calculated to benefit society. The mea- sure of Reform was now beyond the power of man to step it; and he was con- vinced that it was calculated to add to the happiness of the People.

Colonel LINDSAY describedthe extension of the franchise as in no re- spect contributory to the prosperity of a country; and instanced Ireland as an example of that fact. He said, the Bill was not a restoration, but an entire innovation. The Lord Advocate's sentiments were pre- cisely those of Jack Cade : it was "away, burn all the records of the realm ' - my mouth shall be the Parliament of England." The Colonel concluded, however, by claiming for Scotland a much larger number of members than the Bill allowed to it, on the ground that in population it was equal to one sixth, and in revenue to one eighth of England.

Mr. A. JOHNSTONE said, the whole system of Scotch representation was notoriously venal. As to the franchise, it could not extend too far, if with it were extended the means of education among the people, so that their moral might keep pace with their political freedom. Mr. HON: did not deny the necessity of is change, but he thought the change meditated in the Bill to be of too sweeping a character. Sir GEORGE WARRENDER said, be was 'happy that the Bill was to be extensive, for otherwise it could-not be final. He had no fears for the agricultural interest. Lord LOUGHBOROUGH said, the people were anxious for Reform, be- cause they expected present and miraculous relief from it-- It was not the desire of obtaining the small share of political power Which the Bill would give them, that made tire People anxious for Ea.= i it was the

hope of obtaining some individual advantage ; and when they found their hopes drustrated, on the heads of the noble lord and honourable gentlemen opposite -would their indignation recoil.

Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON believed, that if this measure were not granted, notwithstanding the peaceable disposition of its inhabitants, a . similar scene would take place, which- in former days had been wit- nessed in the struggle for religious liberty.

Sir CHARLES FORBES said, he would divide the House against the Bill : at the same time, he had no objection to that part of it which related to Borough Reform.

Mr. HOME said, he was glad Sir Charles had got so far ; perhaps in a few months be might be reconciled to County Reform also.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY suggested to Sir Charles Forbes the postpone- ment of the division for the present ; he could divide on the Counties clause. Sir George went on to argue, that Scotland had a right to more additional members than eight. The Bill, as regarded Scotland, was indeed a revolution ; but he did not fear that word—a revolution might be productive of much good.

Mr. CHOKER contended, from the useful character of the Scotch members under the present system, that no alteration was called for. Mr. C. BRUCE also maintained that no alteration was necessary. Colonel SIBTHORP wished the Press to tell the .kingdom, that the advocates of the measure were much fewer than its opponents.

The Bill was then read a second time.

3. IRISH REFORM BILL. Mr. STANLEY moved the second reading of this bill last night. He alluded to Mr. O'Connell's letter. He would readily return thanks to that gentleman if lie could only prove one of his assertions—that it was a bill to restore the Orange ascen- dancy—to the satisfaction of the Opposition ; and another—that the Tories must join in supporting it—to the satisfaction of the Ministerial

side of the House. He feared that the Bill must be content to be supported like the others. Indeed, be anticipated for it more opposi- tion than any of its fellows from that party to whom Mr. O'Connell thought it would prove so acceptable. Mr. Stanley noticed the reli- gious argument—

If he thought that there was the slightest possible danger in the Bill to the Protestant interests, he should yet be prepared to show, that the argument, if good abstractedly, could he no argument whatever for the year 1832. Such an argument would be totally inconsistent with the whole spirit of legislation ; it would be inconsistent with that system which was perfected and concluded by- the great legislative measure of 1829. The member for Dundalk (Captain Gordon), who was the strict and regular representative of the people of Ireland, would perhaps be brought to acknowledge that lie could prove this even to his satisfaction. From that day, he conceived that the position had been laid down that all religious distinctions, with their kindred rancour and strife, had been done away with in Ireland. If the House admitted the general principle of Re- form, and if it had admitted that no distinction any longer existed between the Church of England and the Catholics, he asked upon what ground they could turn round an say that they would not extend the right of returning members

to Parliament because the Catholics must participate in the extension ? If this were to be case, then he would say that there was vet a Catholic iine,tion left be- hind and to be settled, end that a broad political distinction between the reli- gions still existed.

He went into a calculation of the future county constituency— According to the last returns, the population of Ireland amounted to 7,700,000 Of this number, 7,000,000 might be considered the county population ; and of this there were only 52,162 who had votes, and theretbre formed the whale of the county constituency. There was no freehold under 10/. There were 22,000 of the value of 501. and upwards ; 9,000 of a value between 501. and 201. ; • and out of the whole county constituency of Ireland, there were but 20,000 freeholds of 101. value. If this was a dangerous constitneery, it would be better to say at once that Ireland ought to have no constituenev at all. Of these 20,000 10/. freeholds, there were 8,500 in the province of Ulster, and only 12,000 for the whole of the other three provinces.

He estimated similarly the future borough constituency—

The city of Dublin was the only place of which it could at all be said that the • constituency, by the present Bill, would be rendered inconveniently large. The population of Dublin was 250,000, and the number of voters would he about

16,000. At present, there were 3,500 freemen and 2,500 freeholders. There were 1,000 of the freemen not resident, and there were 1,000 more who occupied houses under 101. rent; but these were to have their rights continued for life. There were seven large places, the representatives for which were returued hr a constituency of from 15,000 to 16,000 voters' who were the principal residents of these towns. Belfast had a population of 44,470. The number of electors at present was only 13. By this Bill, the number would be raised to 2,300.

There were seventeen of the largest class of towns, the whole of which, deducting only three, had a constituency amounting to only 1,900. Dundalk was one of these. There had been sixteen elections since the time of the Union, and not less than thirteen different members ; and of these there were but two or three who had the slightest connexion with Ireland or with Irish interest. There were five towns with an extensive representation. In two of these, Newry and Downpatriek, they proposed to raise the franchise from 51. to 10/. As to Lis- burne, it was no matter whether it was Si. or 101.; and in this place, even after the passing of the Bill, Mr. Croker might find his last refuge.

From these statements, Mr. Stanley contended that there was no- thing revolutionary or dangerous in the Bill.

Mr. LEFROY said, he was not disposed to object to the changes in the county constituency: he contended, however, at great length, that the constituency of the boroughs should be left undisturbed. A con- trary plan would be utterly destructive of the Protestant interest in Ireland. For that reason, he moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.

Lord CASTLEREAGH seconded the motion. If the Bill passed, Mr. O'Connell would be able to come down with 86 members at his back, —62 for the Counties, 15 for the Boroughs, and 9 for Cities. With these he would soon disgust the Scotch and English members into a repeal of the Union.

Mr. CnAairrosr-said, there was a third party, neither Catholic nor Protestant—the rational party of 'the Irish People—whom the Bill wendd conciliate ; and though the Conservatives and Radicals corn biped for, the repeal as they had threatened to do, they would find their

combination:unavailing. • Mr. SHAW and Colonel CONOLLY spoke against, and Mr. RUTIIVEN in favour of the tniginal motion. Mr. O'CONNELL pitied the Irish Church,—which, it seemed, de- pended solely on thirteen rotten boroughs, which were put up for sale like cattle in the market, and might be knocked down to any Ca- tholic that would bid the price for them. Mr. Stanley had estimated the population at 7,700,000, and the constituency at 50,000; he was wrong in both eases. The population was above 8,000,000, and the constituency would not be more than 25,000.

The advocates for the non-reformation of the representation of Ireland said they opposed the Bill because it would render more irresistible the power of the agitators. He could tell the House, he had ever found that the only available- material for the working of an agitation was a just and real grievance; and he would entreat members to consider what a scope for it would be afforded by the refusal to permit Ireland's participating in the blessings of Reform. What would the people of Ireland sav, when they heard that their brethren in England, after having the assistance of the Irish representatives in carrying this Reform Bill, had refused in return to grant them the paltry boon of the miserable. jejune, and narrow measures which Government was disposed to let them have7 He did not like saying any thing which might have the appearance of a threat, but if Reform was refused to the people of Ireland, the House might depend upon seeing an Irish Parliament in Dublin before the expiration of six months.

The single amendment in the proposed Bill—the giving a vote to sixty-years leaseholders of 10L—would hardly create a vote in Leinster, Minister, or Connaught ; and of what use could it be in any portion of a country where half the land was in the bands of the Church, which was precluded by law from granting leases for more than twenty-one years ? Unless the qualification were very much lowered, the Bill would effect no reform in Ireland.

The discussion was continued by Captain GonnoN (who said he was the representative of Constitutional principles), Mr. SHELL, 11ir. GEORGE DAwsoN, and Sir Roesler PEEL.

The House at length divided on the amendment : for it, 130; against it, 246; majority, 116.

4. REFORM PETITIONS. Amidst a host of petitions agreed to in various parts of the country, nearly all of them calling on the House of Commons to withhold the Supplies until the Reform Bill was passed, the LORD A u v or ATE presented on Wednesday the great Edinburgh petition; %slid; his Lordship said was signed by 3:4,700 persons, most of whom had added their addresses to their signatures. Ile mentioned, as indicative of the spirit that influenced the Edinburgh Reformers, that on the day that followed the meeting, there was not a single police case in that city.

Mr. R. A. DL'NDAS spoke of some engineers of his acquaintance that had measured the ground, and found it could only contain 9,000 persons. He adverted to " a friend of his," whom his Majesty had lately ap- pointed to the command of the Ninety-second Regiment, and who had taken a prominent part in the meeting— Where he was surrounded by decided emblems of Republicanism, such as bannere displaying the figure of the King without his head, and the Revolu- tinnary symbols of France, with placards bearing the most seditious inscriptions. Ile believed that there was not a soldier iu the Ninety-second Regiment that would not have torn down these revolutionary banners.

Colonel EVANS strongly deprecated such individual allusions.

Mr. T. F. KENNEDY said, he never listened to a more unwarrant- able attack. He thought that all Scotsmen should be proud of the mrter of the meeting in question, and should rejoice that the peace of their country had not been broken.

The LORD ADVOCATE said, the conduct of the gallant officer had not merely been blameless, butt highly creditable. The Lord Advocate believed the account of the flags had been over-coloured ; but whether they were or not, it was not to be supposed that any person attending a public meeting was responsible for what every other person in attend- ance might do or say.

The LORD ADVOCATE. afterwards presented a petition signed by 27,000 persons, from time town of Perth and its neighbourhood.

Sir GEoRGE MunnAv adverted to an anecdote related by:Lord Lyne- (loch iii January,—that an account of the Duke of Wellington's be- ing shot by the mob in London was so warmly received by the people in Perth, that they seriously contemplated an illumination in conse- quence. Sir George took occasion, from his repetition of this anec- dote, to enter into an eulogium on the Duke of Wellington; and con- cluded, that persons who could rejoice in the assassination of such a. man, were unworthy of attention, were they, instead of twenty-seven. thousand, twenty-seven millions in number.

Mr. HALLYBURTON mentioned, that lie was an eye-witness of the first meeting at Perth ; it consisted of from 15,000 to 18,000 persons.

5. Tin NEWCASTLE MEETING. A speech by Mr. Larkin, of a very violent character, pronounced at the meeting that lately took place at Newcastle, was the subject of a lengthened conversation in the House of Lords last night. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY read some passages from it, as reported in a Newcastle paper ; of which the fol- lowing are the most offensive-

" This determination, on the part of the King. not to create Peers and support Lord Grey, but to transfer his confidence into the hands of men whom the people detest and scorn, and to support a faction in opposition to his people and the votes of the House of Commons, I can scarce regard in any other light than an net exceeding in rashness, in atrocity, and in guilt, the most unconstitutional proceedings of the First Charles, or the Ordinances of Charles the Tenth. To this rash step he has been urged by the entreaties of a foreign female, and the importunities of certain bastards that infest the Royal Palace." (Laughter and hisses.) " We arc oppressed with taxes, from which we want to lie relieved. We are doomed to the support of a Church odious from its exactions, and still more odious from the op- position of its mitred beads to the liberties of the people. We possess an aristocracy unparalleled in its insolence, haughtiness, arrogance, disdain of the people, and its rapacity. We have a Minister strong in popular support, dismissed,like Neckar, by the intrigues of a faction, from the Councils of his sovereign ; and, like Neckar, to be brought back, I trust, triumphant on the shoulders of the people. We have an uxorious King, hostile to Reform, aud incited to resistance to the wishes of his people, by the dis- astrous influence of a foreigner, who has been elevated to the dignity and splendour of Queen Consort of England." (Groans and cheers.) "Should not William the Fourth recollect the fate of Louis the Sixteenth ? Should not a Queen, who makes herself a busy, intermeddling politician. recollect the fate of Marie Antoinette ? From this hustings I hid the Queen of England recollect, that in consequence of the opposition of that ill-fated woman to the wishes of the people of France, a fairer bead than ever graced the shoulders of Adelaide Queen of England. rolled upon the scaffold."

The Marquis, after stating that there were various passages in the speech still more atrocious and treasonable, concluded by asking if Earl grey and his colleagues approved of such language ? If they did not distinctly disclaim all approbation of it, he would submit a propo- sition on the subject.

Lord GODERTCH rose, in much apparent trepidation, to entreat Earl Grey not to answer such a question. What was the question ? what was the charge ?—for the mere putting of such a question implied a .charge of the most atrocious character—

The question was neither more nor less than whether his noble friend, at the bead of Ida Majesty's Government, did not approve ef doctiiucs and language at the hare mention of which every drop of English blond must be almost icurdled with horror—doctrines and language which were full of the most des- perate and villanous treason. (Loud cheers on loth sides of the liguse.) If his noble friend could have been justly charged with approving one-tenth part of such atrocious and treasonable language, he would have deserved to lose his Lead on the scaffold.

Lord WvNroan was convinced Earl Grey disapproved equally of the speech and the traitor that uttered it. Ile blamed Ministers, however, for not perceiving how necessary it was to prosecute such a speech. It was equally necessary to put down Patient Unions, which had given Tin to such speeches they were contrary to common law. The feasting of one of their heads, by the Lord Mayor of Louden, brought to mind the bloody Revolution of France. It had been said that prosecutions had failed, and therefore they ought not to be instituted : if this doctrine were acted on, the sooner he got out of the country the better !

He had no doubt, however, that if prosecutions were conducted with zeal- . with ability he had no doubt they wculd be conducted, if cm:ducted at all—but if they Amid be conducted with zeal, so as to convince Juries that the Govern- - anent wished to have convictions, he had no doubt but that convictions would take place.

The Earl of RADNOR remarked on the language of Lords London- 4derry and Wynford- They talked of treason and traitors; but on what authority did they make these charges? On the authority of a newspaper speech! How did they know that such a speech had ever been made by .Mr. Larkin, or any one else? The noble and learned lord had said that Mr. Larkin was a traitor; but on what authority did lie hold up Mr. Larkin or any one else as a traitor? How came -the noble and learned lord, who had been a *Judge, and with his judicial charac ter still hanging about him, to designate any one as a traitor before he was tried?

Lord WYNFORO said he did not name Mr. Larkin.

The Earl of RADNOR replied, that the Marquis of Londonderry bad named him, and Lord Wynford called the person whom the Marquis named a traitor. Lord Radnor noticed Lord Wynford's recommenda- -tion of the mode of conducting state prosecutions— He said that if they were conducted with such zeal as to show that the Go- vernment wished fur convictions, lie had no doubt that Juries would convict. Was that the spirit by which the noble and learned lord, who had been a Chief Jtiqice; ought to be actuated? Was that a mode of speaking tit for the judicial bench? The observations of the noble and learned lord were most irre. gular, most unconstitutional, most illegal; and in every view they were must Junjust from beginning to end.

Lord Wrsrono repeated, that be did not call Mr. Larkin a traitor ; lie never named him ; he merely said the speech was treasonable— If he was still Chief Justice of the Canumon Pleas, he would have stated the same thiug. He was glad, however, that, under present circumstances, he was not a judge. (Loud cries of "Hear tViont the Al in i.:teeial benches, in which the voices of Lords Greg and Lansdowne were paiticulartg cmpluttie.) He Aid not deserve this indecent treatment. Nothing which hail fidlett from him warranted the marked insult of the noble earl and Lit colleagues. He was not, however, to he intimidated by it, and he would tell the noble earl that he was -one who would not receive a judgeship or anv other office from him. ( Cheers and laughter.) lie repeated, he had said nothing incompatible with the dig- nity and impartiality of the judicial character. (Laughter and Oipositiou cheers.) • Earl GREY appealed to the Houk against the irregularity of such a spiestion as Lord Londonderry had put— No Peer could in decency presume to conic down to that House and say to another Peer, " Here is treason in the newspaper—I wish to know whether you disapprove of sentiments." lie would not for a moment rev( graze any noble lord's right so to interrogate him. Ile would ask the noble marquis, what act of his whole political life warrauted such a question? should lie be called upon to express his di.,gust or indignation at sentiments disrespectful to the Kiug or Queen of this realm?

The propriety of prosecuting inflammatory speeches or articles was to be determined by a multitude of collateral circumstances, and must .be left to the official responsibility of Ministers.

The Duke of CUMBERLAND said, he did not believe that there was a man in the country, much less any Peer in that House, who for a single instant entertained the idea that Earl Grey could partake of the senti- ments contained in the speech which the 1-louse had heard read. Earl Grey's character was too well known for such an imputation to rest upon it. The fitet being so, he hoped that the conversation might there -end, and that they would proceed with the proper business of the evening deliberately and coolly.

6. THE KING'S LETTER. On Tuesday, the Duke of NEWCASTLE moved for 1. A copy. of the letter of the King to Earl Grey, giving him a carte blanche for the creation of Peers. 2. A letter to certain Peers, requesting tlwin to ab- stain from giving any further opposition to the Bill inConinlittee. 8. A copy of a circular letter from the King to certain Peers, calling on them to stay away from the House during the further proceedings on the Bill.

Earl GREY observed, that when the Duke moved for the production of certain letters, he assumed them to be in existence. He would only notice the first of these papers : if it existed,—which be did not admit,— it must be looked on of course as a private communication. Their Lordships could never think of calling fur such a document.

The Duke of NsweAsrLE said it had been shown to a distinguished Peer_ of that party III:twos called " Wagerers."

The motion being putt, Earl GREY once more deprecated its being pressed.

The Duke of CUMBERLAND interposed-

" No one will go further than I am ready to do to support the noble duke ; but on this occasion I must beg leave to submit to him that be is not aware of what he is attempting. This letter, if it exists, must be of a private nature, and every one knows that between a King and his Minister private communications must pass; and I submit to my noble friend whether he cart ask the noble earl, as a Peer and a gentleman, to give up a letter which is intended fbr his eye alone. No one clhatpprOves'of the Reform Bill more than I do, but God foxInd that in my opposition to it I should do any thing that is factious,. or Support any thing which has the appearance of being so. 1 do not approve of the Bill; but as to making a factious opposition to it, or to the noble earl, I declare solemnly to God I have no such intention."

The Duke of NEWCASTLE bowed to the Duke's authority, and the motion was withdrawn.

7. Tun PRESS. In the House of Commons, on Monday, Lord STORMONT rose to point to the attention of the Attorney-General an article in the Satirist newspaper of the 13th, on the subject of the King-

:tot' the members of his family. Lord Stormont read some extracts, of which the following seemed to be the strongest-

"\Ve. publicly, solemnly, strenuously, igaplure our countrymen to bear in mind the great must hutional truth, that the same piiwer by which our fathers' wet.a enabled to confer on the family of Brunswick the crown of England, when the so conferring it was 111‘ oar:tide to the freedom and happiness of the British people, that same power lc mild be justifiably and patriotically exercised by us in removing the crown from the Is,aul of any member of that fancily who should forget the principles which had called his ancestors to the throne. Yrs ; should it unhappily become a.qnestion whether tight utl should be free,—that is to say, whether the rotten boroughs should be abolished and the great towns enfranchised,—in other words, whether Lord Grey's Bill should piss, or King William the Fourth take his chop at Holyrood with Charles Dix,—we Say. let England be free, and let there be two X's in the alphabet of menarchical.im- becilitw."

The Queen is nothing more than a marvellously ill-favoured German woman, who. never having been guilty of an idea, most gladly grasped at the delusion that she had one, when M hiskerandos Cumberland filled her frivolous bead with Itii own deep eogi- I am ions on the subject of Reform." " Meanwhile, the euernies of the Nation—the Queen, the Duchess of Kent, the fluke of Cumberland, and Mrs. Jordan's son—obtained an opposite promise, and kept inces- sant watch over his conduct. This was the reason why the Anti-Reforming Peers were latterly so hold, and the Ministry so full of timidity and embarrassment. But the age is gone by when intrigues like these can be eondueted with impunity. The peranaders of the King in this matter are the enemies both of the King and of the nation ; and his- tory records none who better deserve the doom attached to such conduct. The well- earned fate of another Bermait Queen should have been before their eyes, or, at least, the more recent one of the Duchess of Bent"

There were other libellous attacks, Lord. Stormont said, which; in their nature were so infamous, that he would take the opportunity of privately submitting them to the Attorney-General, as he could not venture to read them publicly.

Sir THOMAS PENMAN said, the common opinion of the powers of the Attorney-General was a very erroneous one. It was generally imagined that he had only to issue his fiat, and offensive publications must cease. He had not such extinguishing powers. On the con- trary, the issuing of an ex redo information almost invariably extended the mischief it was meant to suppress— Lord Stormont himself bad drawn into a broader light a publication, of which few, perhaps, had heard ; and it was the Attorney-General's firm opinion, founded upon experience, that a libeller thirsted for nothing more than such an advertisement, or the still more valuable one of a public trial in a court of justice. Triumph there made him rich, and defeat gave him all the honours of martyr- dom. Even martyrdom was found to have its pecuniary advantages, for it often procured the wretched author a much better lodging in a prison than, while at large, he had been accustonied to occupy. Punishment was therefore ineffectual.

It was a mistake that contempt did not reach such persons— They would feel it at least in pocket, for the public would soon turn with loathing from the pernicious panderism of the press. He hoped, too, that the multitude of such publications would check the circulation of each; and, as.the poison would become any thing but a rarity, people would cease to value and regard it. The very neglect with which they had been treated by the public authorities for a long course of months had of itself diminished the number; of licentious publications, and many had fallen, that through prosecution would have been elevated to importance. Sir Thomas said, even Sir Charles Wetherell bad shown that his prosecutions for libels only served to increase their number, by the ubstinency which he practised in 1819, when, among other expedients, it was actually proposed to scatter forged bank-notes in the streets. With respect to those publications which Lord Stormont said he would not venture to quote,— Was it fitting that they should be exposed to an open court of justice? It was undoubtedly and lamentably, true, if the evil of libels were the reading of them, prosecutions made innumerable readers ; and in cases of private libel, a proceed- rug before a jury served chiefly to disseminate the slander. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL spoke at great length : he blamed the Queen's Attorney-General as well as the King's.

After a short speech in vindication from the former,

Sir ROBERT PEEL admitted, that in some cases, prosecutions for libel might do more ill than good— There yet were cases in which the Government would be bound to prosecute the slanderers of rank, of dignity, and station, and the destroyers of the private and public security of every circler in the state. If indecent and scandalous libels of this nature were not punished, it would lead to the belief that the Govern- ment wiis indifferent, and that they failed iu the necessary courage to discharge their duty to the public. It mils very true that jurors in some cases would not convict ; but in these cases, he would say, let the blame rest upon the jurors rather than upon the supineness, the weakness, or the cowardice of the Go- vernment.

Captain GORDON intimated his intention of collecting the libels,. as he called them, or at least the worst of them, and reading them over once a week for the edification of the IIouse.

Lord .ALTHORP said, this would be a fair way to give them a pros- perous sale.

Mr. Hum deScribed Mi. Hetherington as a gentleman who was very sincere in his opinions ; and expressed great pleasure at the doctrines now laid dawn by the Attorney-General for the first time by such an (Aker.

After a few words from Mr. SHAW and Mr. J. CAMPBELL, the con- versation dropped; and the subject out of which it had arisen—the se- cond reading-of the Scotch Reform Bill—was proceeded with.

8. BANK CHARTER. Lord ALTHORP moved, on Tnesday, the ap- pointment of a secret Committee on the Bank Charter. He said he should not go into any detail on the question- of banking; but it Ives necessary he should explain why he moved for a Committee on the subject- It was true that the present was the first instance in which the Charter of the Bank of England had ever been referred to the House fur inquiry before a re- newal ; and it was equally true that the occasion of a renewal of.that Charter, had always been considered as the proper time.for an, inquiry into the banking system'of the country, and had been looked.forward to by the public as a fitting opportunity for a consideration of the principles of the Bank of England. Under these circumstances, he had therefore thought that he should nut have discharged his duty if he had entered into any communication, or treaty with the Bank of England for a renewal of its Charter, until he had first brought the subject under the consideration of the House.

He wished the Committee to be a secret one, on account of the im- portant money transactions that the question involved--

The several questions for the consideration of the Committee would be of the -greatest importance. First, the Committee would have to decide whether or net it would be expedient that the Charter should be renewed ; and secondly, in ease it should be so determined; whether any exclusive privileges shook' be given to the Bank ; and it would then be for the Committee to recommend to the House to what degree such exclusive privileges should besextended, and upon what conditions. After this, he thought there would properly be another ques- tion for the consideration of the Committee,—namely, the existing system of banking, with reference to banks of issue in this country. He felt that it would be desirable that both these questions should be considered at the smite time; and he thought, by pursuing this course, no person could complain that the Le- gislature had the right to say on what conditions the powers of issuing and cir- culating should be delegated, with a view to the general benefit of the country.

The questions of the incorporation, in their capacity of bankers to the state, and as merely the issuers of notes, he thought were questions which were in their nature distinct, and ought to be kept so. On the one-pound note question, he had his own opinions ; but he thought it would be best that the Committee should not go into the question of the currency at all. He had selected thirty gentlemen—as large a num- ber as was compatible with a committee of secresy—from among those whom he had seen usually taking a share in such discussions.

In reply to. emestions ficuri Mr. BARING, Lord ALTuoite repeated, be thought the Committee. had best not go into the one-pound Dote question; but of course he could not limit their inquiries. He did not think a Committee a proper body to arrange the terms of a bargain be- tween the Brink and Government. To the question of another mem- ber, he stated, that the Committee Was meant to rePort on the state of banking as applicable to England and .Wales only, not Scotland.

A long conversation ensued, but no additional fact was elicited in consequence. The following are the names of the members of the Committee— Lord Viscount Ahhorp,- Sir Robert Peel, Lord John Russell, Mr. Goulburn, Sir James Graham, Mr. Berries, Mr. Poulett Thomson, Mr. Courtenay, Co- lonel Malierly, Sir Henry Parnell, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. John Smith, Mr. Robarts, Sir Matthew Ridley, Mr. Attwood, Sir John Newport, Mr. Baring,. Mr. Irving, Mr. Warburton, Mr. George Philips' Mr. James Morrison, Lord Viscount Aforpeth, Mr. Heywood, Lord ViscountEhrington, Mr. Lawler, Sir John Wrottesley, Lord Cavendish, Mr. Alderman Wood, Mr. Strutt, Mr. Bon- ham Carter, Mr, Edward John Stanley, Mr. Aldirman Thompson.

The name of Alderman THOMPSON, the only Bank Director in the. House,-was added to Lord Althorp's original list, on the suggestion of Sir RICHARD VYVI7A:s.:.

:9. Anor.inor' OF SLAVERY. On Thursday, Mr. F. BUXTON brought forward his motion for a Select Committee, "to consider arid report upon the measures expedient to be adopted for properly effecting the extinction of slavery throughout the British dominions, at the ear- liest period compatible with the safety of all classes in the Colonies." In prefacing his motion, he noticed the treatment that Missionaries had generally received in the Colonies. They were refrised licenses by the Magistrates; and if they ventured to preach without them, were con- signed to prison, in a climate where mere imprisonment was almost certain death to an European. At this moment, the treatment awarded them was no better.

Nothing could exceed the tyranny practised by the authorities and eulogized by the press of Jamaica. He would read a statement from a.Jamaica Paper: it went on thus—"During the Rebellion of Ireland in 1798, which was more re- ligious than political, the chief movers were of the Catholic persuasion; and wherever a suspicion existed against a priest, he was seized, bound to the hal- berts, and flogged until he confessed. He was then tried upon Iris confession, and either hanged or shot. Can we have less delicacy towards the vagabonds [Missionaries] who have excited rebellion among our slaves, than was observed by the officers of the British army ? Let Irish justice prevail in Jamaica, and site may yet flourish." The publication proceeded to state that a Methodist Missionary had smuggled himself into the island of Trinidad, where he was ap- prehended and brought before the Governor, Sir Thomas Picton. " The Go- vernor asked him what was his occupation, and he replied, I am a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I serve no other master.' What r cried Sir Tho- mas, you sneaking scoundrel, do you dare to speak rebellion to my face; do you dare to disclaim your allegiance? Take him out and bang him.' Sir Tho- mas Picton was a man whose orders were not to bi disobeyed. The culprit ter- minated his existence, and the Colony had not since been cursed by a Missionary.', Such, Mr. Buxton said, was the tone of sentiment in Jamaica on the subject of the religious instruction of the slaves. He went on to notice a fact to which he had referred in former speeches on the same subject— the diminution of the Negro population, under circumstances highly fa- vourable to its increase, in a country unvisited by war, or famine, or pestilence, where the soil was rich and the climate congenial. The dimi- nution in ten years had amounted to 52,000. The stripes inflicted with the cart-whip—one of which was admitted to be as severe as twelve of tire common cat—amounted, calculating by the registry of Demerara, to more than two millions annually. The moral degrada- tion of the Negroes consequent on their treatment was extreme. It appeared from the testimony of Mr. Irving, member for Bramber, that not one in a thousand understood the nature of an oath ;. yet oaths were administered to and understood by the natives of every other de- pendency of England-.—Hindoos, Mahomedans, Savages. He would conclude with a short extract from a paper written by Mr. Jaffee- Sir Robert Peel had been a member of the Cabinet from 1823 to MO, and son, the President of the United States of America. Mr. Jefferson was a slave- what had the Government done during that period in relation to this subject? Owner, and full of all the prejudices incidental to his class ; yet, as a legislator! In 182:3, undoubtedly, the question might have been easily settled—much more seeing the calamities of a contest between the slaves and their masters, he had easily than now ; but the Government of which the right honourable baronet said, " I tremble for my country, when I remember that God is just ; that his was a member, shrunk froth the responsibility of bringing forward any measure justice may not sleep for ever;- di that a revolution is almost immediately at hand, for-that purpose. That was the true secret of the difficulties with 'which the and the Almighty has no attribute which can side with us in such a struggle." question was now surrounded. Sir Robert had pursued the same course with Mr. Buxton, with such overwhelming facts impressed upon his mind, could not regard to Slavery, that he hid pursued with regard to Reform and the Catholic but believe that few calamities could be more fatal to the empire than a similar war in our colonies, in which the justice of Heaven and the hearts of the English people must be ou the side of the enemy.

The motion was seconded by Mr. O'CoNNELL, and supported by

Mr. STR ICK LAN IL • Mr. Karat Dom; Las complained of the omission of any mention of compensation. Was Mr. Buxton prepared to carry the question of emancipation by agitation only ? Mr. Douglas adverted to the causes of the diminution in the Negro population— In 1807, when the slave trade was to be suspended, many planters thought it would be for their advantage to have as many male slaves at they could ; and the cousequence was that the males were in numerous instances to the females as three to one. The natural result of this disparity between the two sexes was, that for scone years the stave popnlatioa could not increase; that there were few births on estates so circumstanced, compared with those where a different state of thingsprevailed. It was found that upon estates in Demerara and Ja- maica, where the number IS females exceeded the males, there was an increase of the slave popnlation. Mr. Ptixtem knowing such fats as these, should not have left them entir. ly out of ri w. It was not fair to take merely the average of ten years. lit St. Christopher's, for instance, on the average of the years taken by him, there was a di:ohm:ion ; but in the year: 1825 and 1823, when the numbers of bail saxes in. that i dand were more nearly proportioned, there was an inerea-e of nine hundml in the population.

-Mr. Douglas sincerely wi,hed to see the resolutions of 1823 carried into effect, and he hoped Covernmoit would continue to act in the spirit of these resolutions. :1: to the argument of the cart-whip, did Mr. Buxton imagine that the slave-owners had any peculiar partiality for cruel MealIS of treatment ? The story of Governor Picton and the opinions of newspaper editors were unworthy of quotation or answer.

Mr. 1‘1"AcAur.Av said, the theory of Mr. K. Douglas, by which he accounted for the diminution of the slaves, Iva: tmtenable- In Berhice, Demerara, and Trinidad, there was a doe: . ease in the whole amount of the slave populatin, even in the number of females. In these places there was no disproportion ht ween the sitxe. 3j r. hunvgBis seemed to think it enough if he made out that the population was stationary. This was not enough : it should increase, under the favourable circumstances of a fertile soil, a climate congenial to the Negio constitmhm, and td1 that was supposed capa- la, rentlerin happy, etemomed, and 1 i liai.. sjucli was the case in New :-Muth Wales, where a peptdetimi of:gin:illy composed of convicts and ptc,stitutea, in. spite of their former habit: of vice ;Lott intemperance, had gone on inereasiug. . It was the .-:,tea in Berineda, the Bahamas, Barbadoes—in every colony where the sugar cultivation was not carried on to any extent. But it the sugar plantations the ffilqtality was in prop: thou to the futility of the soil.

Sir liceEnr PEEL, after some gentral reomrits on the necessity of prudent and practical measures only being entertained, proceeded to in- quire how the question lictweett the Govermnent and the Colonies now stood— Ile was anxious to know whether the recent order of the 14th March 1832 still remained is force ; or won1.1 his 3Iajesty's Covernment infirm the House, whether any change had been made in that order, or was it to be adopted in the Colnx:ies? for it appeared that it was to be supersctled by the motion nf the member fur Wqmouth. If his Majesty hail abandoned that policy, finding it bad, he was site they would have the manliness to avow it. The Lords had appointud a C mittee to fia9isfiiy into the state of slavery in the West Indies, and also into the condition, habits, and disposition , the slaves, as well as to the means of facilitating their civilization as well as flit• th, alleviation of their distress. Now he thought, 'while there existed sneh a Committee, Which no doubt would most efficiently discharge their duties, the present motion was one which was not at all expedient.

The question was one of policy as well as humanity— Its adjustment could only be achieved, not by those who had a direct in- terest in it, but by the Government, who had it in their power to procure all the information which would be required to decide upon a subject of so much importance. He should much rather that it were left m the hands of Govern- ment. Let the Lords adopt any plan which they considered most expedient, and no doubt but it would be such as would enable them to procure the information. requisite to decide on a question of so much importance; hot he thought the present motion was one to institute a vague inquiry without time slightest possible benefit. Let the question be adjourned until next year. By that time, the Government would be able to procure such information as will enable them to encounter it with greater hopes of success. No possible injury could result faint their doing so. They then would be able to inert the pestbai with a One con- sideration-to the interests of all parties, and would be in po.:sessden of is:■irma- tion on many essential points of detail.

Lord A LTHORP did not see any inconsistency in appointing it Com- mittee of the Commons merely because there NITS already sitting a Committee of the Lords.

The Resolutions of 182:3 had for their object the amelioration of the cemlitiort of the shrive, so as to prepare hint for his emancipation, and the motion of Mr. Buxton went only to the same length ; and ire agreed with him in opinion that the formation of a Committee was the safest and most practicable plan for the abolition of slavery. He concurred in many parts of the spevell of :tj.ir Robert Peel, but he must differ with biln as to the present motion. It was nit meant by it to extinguish slavery without due consideration. It was riot for the im- mediate abolition of slavery. It was only to devise such mayor.. as would make the slave fit to receive his emancipation. That was an act that was due to hu- manity and justice. The Resolutions of 1S23 at that time met the sanction of

that clonse, and they but very little from the resolution proposed by Mr Buxton.

He would, however, suggest the substitution of "ultimate" for "speediest,' to prevent misinterpretation.

He would conclude with a short extract from a paper written by Mr. Jaffee- Sir Robert Peel had been a member of the Cabinet from 1823 to MO, and Sir GEORGF. MURRAY took nearly the same view of the question as Sir Robert Peel had done.

Lord HOWICK noticed the recommendation of Sir Robert Peel to • postpone the consideration of the question for the present. It was in consequence of the stand-still system which Sir Robert had so long practised in respect to Emancipation and every thing else, that the question was now surrounded with so many difficulties- question. He was a waiter on Providence ; he stopped until time had cleared the road for him. Did he not recollect the strong language he used in 1827, in opposing Mr. Cannin ,g's accession to office, because that Minister would carry the Catholic question; and did not he remember how well, two years afterwards, he had refuted the arguments he had before advanced? The course Sir Robert then pursued he was pursuing now. The Order in Council which he con- demned, was recommended to the Legislative Councils in the most moderate language possible. After eight years' bdiscussion, was it not trifling with the people of this country—was it not trifling with the interests of the West Indians themselves—nut to take strung measures, It was essential that the Government should embrace such measures to induce the Colonies to adopt the reforms pro- posed. He hoped much front the Committee, which would nut, as was said, supersede the Order in Council. The Committee might devise additional means of enforcing the Order, and of promoting its objects. Sir ROBERT PEEL complained of an attack that he could not regu- larly answer ; be denied that he had objected to the Order in Council, or to the extinction of slavery.

Lord SANDON suggested the insertion, after the word "safety," of the words "of all parties concerned ;" and the addition to the resolution, of the words "and in conformity with the Resolutions of the 15th May 1823." Lord ALTIIORP said, he had suggested to Mr. Buxton the addition of the latter words ; be did not think the former were necessary.

The discussion was continued for some time longer. In the course of it, Mr. HUME defended flogging, on the ground of its being abso- lutely necessary in order to make the slave perform his task ; and Mr. BARING ridiculed its amount,—which, he said, in a population of 800,000, was no more than 2 cart-whip lashes for each individual per annum.

The House at last divided : for Lord Sandon's amendment, 163; for the original resolution, 90. The amended resolution stands thus- " That a Select Committee be appointed, to consider and report upon the measures which it may be expedient to adopt for the purpose of effecting the extinction of Slavery throughout the British dominions, at the earliest period compatible with the safety of all classes in the Colonies, and in conformity with the Resolutions of this House on the 15th day of May 1823."

On the House resuming, the name of Mr. FOWELL BUXTON was placed on the Committee ; but, on the suggestion of Lord Aurnone, the nomination of the other members was postponed until Wednesday next.

In the House of Lords, also on Thursday evening, Lord liRotcnAm presented a petition in favour of abolition, signed by 135,000 individuals. Lord SUFFIEI.D said, it would, if unrolled, extend for more than half a mile. His Lordship presented twenty-one petitions besides on the same subject.

Some conversation ensued on the management of the Lords' Com- mittee on Slavery. The Duke of Iticumoxn described it as most im- partial. Lord S (=limn observed, that it was moved by a slave proprietor ; and most of its members, as well as the witnesses on whose information they depended, were in the same predicament.

10. husn EDUCATION. A conversation took place on this subject in the Lords on Thursday, on the presentation of a petition f'rom Bris- tol by the Marquis of BRISTOL.

The Earl of RADNOR hoped, in passing over this and such petitions in silence, it was not understood that the facts they contained were acquiesced in.

The Earl of RODEN expressed his belief in the statements of the petitioners ; and said, that was an infamous system of education from which the Word of God was excluded.

The Earl of RADNOR—" Will the noble lord support this allegation which appears in the petition ?—' That the Society are engaged in teach- ing in the schools of Ireland the peculiar doctrines of the Church of Rome.' " The Earl of WINCHILSEA said, that the use of such extracts only as were conformable to the Roman Catholic doctrines, justified the alle- gation.

Lord WrNronn complained of the regulation• which required Ca- tholic children to go to mass. It was a direct encouragement of the Catholic religion. .

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained, that a similar regulation existed in the Army.

The Duke of RICHMOND added, that time Army regulation had been introduced by the late Duke of York. When the soldiers were left free to go to mass, or not, as they pleased, they were all Roman Ca- tholics. Now every man was marched to his own place of worship, and compelled to attend it.

It was only proposed by the present system that the children should go to their own churches, which, if they (lid not, they would go to no church at all ; which was, perhaps, what the noble lords on the other side wanted. • It was afterwards stated by the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, that no certificate of attendance at church was required, as the clergymen found it impossible to ascertain whether the children went to church or not.

Lord ELLENsonouon thought, in that case the children must get no religious instruction at all.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—" The Protestant clergy are au- thorized and invited to attend the schools, and to instruct the children in religion out of school hours ; and I presume that the Protestant clergy will do their duty."

The Earl of RODEN having presented a petition from the Presby- tery of Glasgow against the Government plan, the Marquis of LANS- DOWNE noticed the declarations in its favour by the two public meetings lately held in Glasgow and Edinburgh. Lord MINTO said, the people of Scotland were decidedly in its favour.

11. hum TrrnE BILL. This bill was committed in the Lords on Wednesday. No amendment was offered.

12. Tamil TITHES. Mr. STANLEY mentioned, last night, that a rough draft of a report of the Committee had been printed for the greater convenience of the members, and had since appeared in a Dublin news- paper. He mentioned this breach of privilege, merely to prevent the

impression from going abroad, that the draft alluded to had been approved of by the Committee. In point of fact, no report had been yet agreed to.

13. DISTURBANCES IN IRELAND. On Wednesday, Sir HENRY PAR-. NELL having presented a petition to that effect signed by thirty-seven- Magistrates of Queen's County, moved for the appointment of a com- mittee to inquire into the disturbances that prevailed in certain parts of • Ireland.

Mr. STANLEY said, he had no objection, if it were deemed necessary, to have a committee of inquiry ; but it must be understood that he was decidedly opposed to any proposition of an unconstitutional nature.

After some conversation, the House divided ; but on the numbers counted, it was found that there were not 40 members present ; and consequently the Committee was lost. [ Sir Henry has renewed his motion.]

14. FREE TRADE. In the House of Commons, on Tuesday, Mr. ROBINSON, member for Gloucester, after a long speech, in which he endeavoured to show that the country had suffered greatly from the free-trade system, as he termed it, that had been maintained for the last twelve years, moved for a Committee to inquire into its policy.

Mr. HUME ridiculed the notion of suffering from free trade ; when in reality, in the system that Mr. Robinson complained of, there was nothing that approached to free trade.

The debate, or conversation rather, was long and unprofitable. Mr. noon' and Alderman 1VAITIMAN spoke in favour of the Committee, and Mr. P. THOMSON and Colonel TORRENS against it. Mr. BARING advocated the views of both parties ; while Mr. ATTWOOD hinted that the cause of till the mischief that Mr. Robinson deplored did not lie in free trade, but in the Currency Bill. The motion was not pressed to a division.

15. DIVISION OF COUNTIES. The Bill for dividing the English Counties, was read a second time on Monday.

16. LIVERPOOL FRANCHISE. The bill for regulating the frinchise of Liverpool was read a second time on Wednesday, after a division. The numbers were 44 to 10; majority for the bill, 34.

17. NAVY Civil, DEPARTMENTS. On Wednesday, the bill for the consolidation of the civil departments of the Navy was read a second time by the Lords, after a brief compliment from Lord NAPIER to the knowledge and efficiency of Captain Symonds. Lord Napier said, the two vessels last built by Captain Symonds were greatly superior to any built by Sir Robert Seppings.

18. GOVERNOR OF MADRAS. Air. LABOUCHERE put a question last night on the salary of this office (16,0000; which was, he thought, too great. He hoped also the new Governor went out with a dis- tinct understanding, that when the East India Charter was renewed, the salary might be revised.

Mr. C. GRANT said, in point of fact, from the state of the exchanges, the salary did not exceed 14,0004 It had been reduced to 10,0001., subject to future reduction if Parliament saw PRIVILEGE OP PARLIAMENT.--011 Monday, a bill was brought in and read a first time, "for preserving the dignity and independence of the House of Commons, by causing the seats of insolvent members to be vacated, by preventing the election of insolvent persons to serve as members, and by removing difficulties touching the rights of creditors- against bankrupt members." The bill was brought in by Mr. Baring, Mr. Knight, and Mr. Goulburn.

19. Acnicerrnann LABOURERS. There is a bill now in progress in the House of Commons for the better employment of agricultural la- bourers: as the newspaper reports on the subject have been defective, we give from the printed bill itself, as amended in Committee, an- abridgment of the enacting clauses. The bill empowers three fourths of the rate-payers of any parish or township, assembled in terms of the Vestries' Regulation Act (58th Geo. III.), to adopt such plans of apportioning among the rate-payers the labour of able-bodied persons who are upon the justices of the peace, will continue in force for six months. The labourers are to be apportioned among such rate-payers only as occupy lands or tenements of the value of 121. yearly. If rate- payers, to whom labourers are assigned, refuse to employ them, they will render themselves liable to an additional assessment, not exceeding two thirds of the wages of each labourer so refused. A clause added in Committee, directs sons of persons employed in agriculture to be taken as labourers ; in other words, that in estimating the number of labourers which each fanner is bound to employ, the males of his own family shall be reckoned as part of that number.

20. COUNTY CORONERS. The bill for regulating the future election of County Coroners, directs each county where there are more than one coroner, to be divided into districts, by the justices in quarter- sessions, and each district to have in future its own separate coroner. The electors are to consist of such persons only as have a right to a vote for the knight of the shire, derived from property situate within the district ; and the poll is not to continue open for more than two days of seven hours each. The Coroner will in future receive no allowance for expenses, unless incurred within his district. The act authorizes magistrates to issue summons for parties to attend coroners' juries, and to impose a fine of twenty shillings for refusing to obey. it. Coroners being professional men are incapacitated from acting directly or indirectly in the prosecution or defence of parties who shall have been put on trial in consequence of any inquisition at which theyhave presided.