;Debates an lEiroteebingsiniparliament.

MAYNOOTII COLLEGE.

In the House of Commons, on Monday, Sir ROBERT PEEL having moved the third reading of the Maynooth College Bill, Mr. EWART moved an amendment. He said that he did not object to existing establishments, but he did object to any extension of the system of endowment by the State. Be pointed to the Free Church of Scotland, and to Tractarianism in the English Church, as proofs of the increased feeling in favour of the Volun- tary principle; and moved- " That while it is expedient to open all the public educational establishments of Ireland to the Catholics, to reduce to its due dimensions the Irish Church, and to establish entire civil and religious equality between Great Britain and Ireland, it is not advisable to extend the principle of making any religious denomination endowed by and dependent on the State

The amendment was seconded by Mr. HENRY MARGLAND. But Mr. EWART said be would not give the House the trouble to divide, as he was satisfied with having stated the grounds on which he should vote against the third reading of the bill.

Mr. GEORGE BANKES moved another amendment—that the bill be read a third time that day six months. [The speeches of Mr. Bankes and of most of the Members that followed him consisted so entirely of arguments reiterated over and over again in the course of the debates on this subject, that we do not attempt a consecutive abridgment; selecting merely points here and there.] Mr. Bruilres derived relief from the pain that he felt in opposing a measure respecting which the Sovereign's name had been un- constitutionally used in debate, by reflecting that the Sovereign had been misinformed by Ministers, and that therefore he was not opposing the real wishes of the Crown. He denied that the agitation against the bill was confined to the Dissenters ; and in proof, he read an address to the Bishop of Cashel from the clergy of a large district in Ireland, who said that many eonsiderations had induced them to remain silent, but that they now spoke out because their silence had been misrepresented. Sir James Gstanam—" How many signed it ?"

Mr. Ba_smes—" Oh! several." (A laugh.) fir JA3IBS GRABAM—" Seven or eight?"

Mr. BANKES--"No ; more than that. But the reasons which induced them to

abstain from signing so long, might also have prevented others from signing it at all." (Laughter.)

Sir H. W. BARRON—" It was signed by nine out of a hundred and sixty."

Mr. Basurr.s—" There were more than that."

He taunted Mr. Ward with having run away from his own amendment, at the instance of Mr. Hume—a sort of Nestor in that House—lest he should embarrass Ministers. He went back for an historical parallel and warning to the time of James the Second and the acquittal of the seven Bishops; asked how the measure had conciliated the Roman Catholic, clergy? quoted Dr. Duigenan to show that Maynooth College was originally intended to be supported by the Roman Catholics themselves, the act being merely permissive; and that some sixteen or seventeen scholars had been welled from it for taking a part in the Rebellion of 1798: and he asked, was it wise for the House of Commons annually to pay the Catholic priest- hood a large sum of money to assist in stopping the progress of the Reforma- tion? Why did not Sir Robert Peel sooner discover the inadequacy of the grant during the thirty years that he had been intimately connected with Ireland? Had Sir Robert proposed to double the grant, but to continue it on the principle on which it was originally based, he would have found Mr. Bankes and his party ready to join him. It appeared as if nobody had properly estimated the depth or the height of the measure before the House— The depth, he believed, was greater than the Irish Protestant Church; the altitude was higher than the Throne itself. Who would tell him that the day might not come when they would not be able to resist the advent of a Catholic successor to the Throne? He must not be answered that he was conjuring up idle fancies. What had they not all witnessed within the last year ?—one of their own colleagues, a Member of that House, openly becoming a convert to the Roman Catholic Church, and honourably, he must admit, resigning his seat there in con- sequence of his change. Who would tell him that his fears with respect to the Throne were idle? He believed that an honourable Member near him had said truly, that every safeguard against Romanism would be removed when the bill became law. Now the moment for giving their last vote upon the measure had arrived, he must tell the right honourable Baronet, that if he beat his opponents, as he moat probably would, although he might beat them in that House he would not do so in so far as regarded the country. It was said after the battle of the Boyne, when the kingdom was lost and won, and whilst the victors and the vanquished were lying indiscriminately mingled together on the field of victory— or, to use the beautiful words of a modern poet,

"When thousands had sunk on the around overpower'd, The wearied to rest and the wounded to die—"

the Irish said to their English victors, "Change kings and well fight the battle over again." So likewise would he now say to the right honourable Baronet, "Change the Parliament and we will fight you over again." (Loud cheers) " We do not," continued Mr. Bankes, "desire to change kings; foryou have both the kings—you have the black as well as the white king on the board; for your coalition has given you that advantage over us. But we tell you to change the Parliament, if you dare, and we will give you checkmate with the pawns in a week." (Laud cheers and laughter.") Mr. MVEACHY, in advocacy of the measure, made a long and temperate speech; which seems to have made a favourable impression on the House, though its arguments were scarcely new. He adopted the phrase "resti- tution," but in a moral sense; treating the measure as a commencement of justice after a lengthened series of wrongs-

" We are too apt in this country to regard Ireland as an original sin, a en

land in which crime and ignorance and evil passions spring up self-sown-in wild luxuriance, and in a congenial soil. But you should remember that you only leap as you sowed, only gather in the crop which your predecessors planted, and which has sprung up for the present generation in a plenteous harvest of difficulty and danger. A nation cannot be politically, without being morally enslaved; and effect never followed cause in more logical or more disgraceful sequence than did the barbarism of Ireland the course of British legislation. He quoted from the circular of the Anti-Maynooth Committee the ex- hortation, that Protestants should forget "minor differences" and combine against the measure ; reminding the House, that these same parties, in the agitation against the Factories Bill two years ago, spoke most disparagingly of the Protestant Church. He regarded the bill as a fulfilment of the seventh article in the Act of Union, which provided grants to maintain in- stitutions for pious and charitable purposes for twenty years; presupposing that by that time the two countries would be completely amalgamated. Has such an amalgamation taken place? has it even been possible? If not, the Legislature is bound by the terms of that article to the letter and spirt of the grant; which, in common sense and common justice, ought tobe increased in proportion to the increasing wants of the population. If the House refused, he for one honestly confessed that he saw no alternative but a repeal of the Legislative Union— God forbid he should believe the traitors who said that if a foreign war should break out they would desert us in the hoar of peril. He knew they would not. Thislibel did not come from the "Saxon"; and he left it to those from whom it did come to explain it to the Irish people. But he looked to their services in war long before 1829. They had thrown open to them the higher posts in the Army and Navy. Look at the fidelity of multitudes of Roman Catholics during the Rebellion of '98; and remember that the Protestantism of the North was not then found the surest safeguard of the British power. Let it be remembered all along that the Irish were uneducated; that they looked at the antiquity of the Roman Catholic faith, and connected it with all their recollections of Ireland's former in- dependence and greatness—with the rains of their monasteries—with the legends of their wild and beautiful country. They looked at the universality of their re- ligion as compared with Protestantism; and in the midst of their own poverty and degradation they felt proud that they too belonged to that form of Christian faith to which the greater part of Christendom still reverently adhered. He thought, too, of the nature of that religion—that it appealed to the senses and was more suitable than our own to an uneducated and ignorant people, such as the pea- santry of Ireland have been made by our legislative enactments. Let them re- member, too, that it had afforded their only domestic comfort, their only consola- tion under penal laws; and then they might cease to marvel that the Irish peasant clings to the faith of Rome. Nor was their hatred to Protestantism less natural. How had they known Protestantism? They knew it as the religion of the Pale— they knew it as the religion of Elizabeth; and they tested it by her treatment of O'Neale. They knew it as the religion of the Puritans; and they tested it by Cromwell's treatment of Drogheda—by the alternative of Hell or Connaught offered to their miserable forefathers, and by all the dreadful atrocities of that miserable period. They knew it, lastly, as the religion of those who devised and maintained the Penal Laws,—a code to which that of Draeo was merciful, inas- much as the death of a freeman was better than the life of a slave.

He believed that the English people have now an earnest desire to do full justice to Ireland; and that the agitation against the bill was but the ripple on the surface—that this measure was the commencement of a larger, a more comprehensive a more statesmanlike, a more Christian system or government with reference to the administration of affairs in Ireland.

Mr. Bicxlisst Escorr declared his disbelief that any class of the Eng- lish people are opposed to the measure. He did not believe that the clergy as a body are opposed to it: the attempt to get up a petition at Cambridge was a signal failure; and where are the like petitions from the deaneries and archdeaconries of the country? The measure is the foundation-stone of that great system of benevolence peace, and good-will, which Sir Robert Peel is so anxious to establish in Ireland— lie disregarded the taunts of those who cry, "Look at the manner in which this boon is received in Ireland "; and who point to the language of the honour- able and learned Member for Cork and others, who still declare that they are die- satisfied, and that they will remain so until they obtain the Repeal of the Union, or some other wild scheme. That is no argument against the bill. The House should rather consider whether the good and the peaceable portion of the Roman Catholic community in that country are not already conciliated. He would rather take the opinion of the noble Lord the Member for Arundel fifty times over than

that of the honourable and learned Member for Cork. He wished not to see a measure which should satisfy the disaffected and turbulent, but one which ahould be acceptable to the good and well-disposed. Mr. Sroorreit, though admitting that the House was not the place for polemical discussion, said that the subject for debates should have been the question, whether the Roman Catholic or the Protestant religion is founded upon Scripture: and he declared his belief that the doctrines of the HOED= Catholic Church are an awful delusion. He read extracts respecting the doctrines taught at Mayneoth- In the Report of the Irish Education Committee on Maynooth, he found it slated, at pages 445 and 450, that Bale's who was one of the class-authors taught at Ilaynooth, laid down, at vol. ii. page 1113, as a principle in theology, that the Pope may arbitrarily dispense with oaths: and he was confirmed in this doctrine by St. Thomas Aquinas.

He animadverted on a pae-. see which Mr. Wyse had read as a quotation from Luther—

On inquiring into the subject, he found that the passage read by the honourable gentleman was not to be found in any of Luther's works, or to be gathered from even any entire chapter in them; but that it was extracted from the writings of a Roman Catholic author, who gave it as the tendency of all that Luther had writ- ten; in proof of which there were added at the end of it, the words "See Luther's Works." He had thought that the honourable Member for Waterford was the last man in that House, from his usually candid manner of expressmgbis opinions, who would have quoted the passage in a manner which leftand, he had no doubt, many other honourable Members, under the impression that he was reading passage actually to be found in Luther's writings.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER said, he had told Mr. Wyse that he was doing a decidedly foolish thing when be quoted Luther in these debates; for the House would have whole volumes of theology poured upon them from the other side. See the consequence!—

The honourable Member for Birmingham, leaving banking and other questions in which he took especial interest, had been devoting himself to the perusal of theological works ever since. He believed it was one hundred and forty folio vo- lumes which St. Thomas Aquinas had left for the instruction of posterity, all of which honourable Members would be expected to go through; and then they would have quotations from Cappadocius, and a variety of other men. He wished that the House would now leave these questions where they stood, and that they might not be inundated with counter-quotations from the works of Protestant divines. He for one did not feel that the ridicule attached to the speech of the honourable Member for Birmingham which he seemed so much to apprehend; for the speech had any thing but the effect of inclining him to laugh. lo him it was a serious matter; for it gave him great concern to hear a Member of that House say that the Roman Catholics laboured under an awful delusion, and back that assertion by reading passages from the Articles. If there could be an awful delusion, it was that of a gentleman who thought he was at all fseilitating good government by insulting the Roman Catholics in this way. Mr. Buller saw no necessity for that dissolution of Parliament which Mr. Bankes called for; since there was no danger, as in the case of the Reform Bill of 1831, that the House would reject the bill before them. For his own part, he had received no remonstrance from a single constituent on the part he had taken in support of this measure. He felt that he should be abandoning every great object in politics for which all his life he had been contending, if be gave other than a zealous support to this bill; which he looked on as a provision for the clue education of the clergy of the people of Ireland—in itself a great good—but he could not help farther regarding it as a great step towards an entire change of

the policy of this country towards Ireland, especially when looked at with refer- ence to the Ministers who were bringing it forward. He looked upon it as making

a change of policy by which, whoever were Ministers, Ireland must in future be governed—as making a great step in the struggle which the Irish people had so long been carrying on. The first step was the repeal of the detestable code which made the profession of their religion a crime. The next was the repeal of the civil disabilities under which they laboured on account of their religion. And it was most remarkable, that each of these steps had been carried by those who had been opposed to the concession of them in every way; showing that they could not be Obtained until the principles on which they had been oppossed had fairly broken down in the hands of those who had been most opposed to them. The third great step was now making in this bill. After granting to the Irish people

the free exercise of their religion, and after conceding to them civil rights, the House was now about to enact that the religion of the majority of that people

should be treated with the same respect as if it were our established religion. * • There was one point on which he would make a concession to the opponents of the bill—it was this, that averse as they were to the policy upon which he thought Ireland ought to be governed, he did not consider the excitement this measure had occasioned among them had been at all disproportioned to its object. He was obliged to admit this; for he could not look upon the present bill as an iso- lated measure. It was not, even at the present moment, an isolated concession. He could not help regarding it in connexion with the excellent measure far the increase of academical education in Ireland introduced a few nights ago, and in

connexion also with the promise recently given1 of assimilating the municipal

franchise in Ireland to the municipal franchise in England. • • • He con- sidered it the duty of every friend to Ireland, of every one who was really bent on maintaining the connexion between the two parts of the empire, to give his cor-

dial support to the present policy of her Majesty s Ministers. To such policy he would give and he had given no cold or hesitating support; for, in his opinion, the

success of these measures was rendered doubly important when they saw from what quarter they emanated. He had given and would give to such policy as strong and unhesitating support as he would have done had the measures been introduced by a Liberal Ministry and had the Site of a Liberal Ministry depended upon their success. Undoubtedly, the whole character of their future policy to- wards Ireland depended upon the success of these measures. If they should fail, the consequences were awful to contemplate. The measure is opposed because it is said that the doctrines of the Roman Catholics are objectionable. There may be objectionable doctrines, particularly when mixed up with the rubbish of the old schoolmen; but he did not feel him- self responsible for theerrors of a faith which is the religion of a large portion of the people. Could they not point out other parts of our system in which erroneous opi- nions exist, which nevertheless must be upheld by the Government? Nothing could be more atrocious than some of the principles on which the law of property was upheld; but they still adhered to them, because they believed that the utmost evil consequences would follow a wanton interference with the law of property. Honourable gentlemen thought it just that a certain establishment should be kept np because it was their faith: on the same ground that they called for the sup- port of their own faith should they extend the principle to Ireland. It had always appeared to him that they had renounced the right of acting upon their repugnance to the religion of the Irish people when they resolved upon establish- ing the legislative union. He did not deny that the religions opinions of a nation might form aeat objection to an union under the same government with them; but when, with a full knowledge of the religions opinions of the Irish people, this country had determined to unite with them under the same government, it was too late to urge the existence of a religious difference as a ground for depriving their fellow-subjects of their just rights. Considering this measure then, as involving the admission of that principle, without which it was, he believed, impossible that we could maintain our con-

notion with Ireland, he was not inclined to give a less cordial support to that measure on account of any personal misconduct which might be chargeable against the Ministers who introduced it. It was impossible to doubt that those Ministers had laid themselves open to very severe censure, when it was remembered that theyr relied upon the No-Popery feeling of this country in order to thwart Lord Mel- bourne's Irish policy. He (Mr. C. Buller) reproached them at the time, without hesitation, with what he considered a great sin against good faith and good sense; but he was not disposed to renew those reproaches now, when they were adopting a wise and just course of policy. Certainly it could not be disputed that they were now acting honestly. They were, undoubtedly, staking present power and future influence on the adoption of is policy which no inducement except an honest sense of duty could have led them to pursue; and it was quite clear that they had exchanged the support of the united party which placed them in power, for the aid of those whom the excellence of their measures had converted into supporters of their Government He bad not the slightest sympathy with gentlemen below the gangway on the other side, who complained that they had been deceived by the right honourable Baronet H,e believed the reverse was the fact As far as he could recollect, those honourable gen- tlemen never had any confidence in Sir Robert Peel. (A knigk) They used to confess that he was not one of themselves; and in all measures with respect to Ireland especially, that he did not take that high course which they wished, but placed his opposition on some ground of temporary expediency: and their com- plaints on this point were no secret, for they made Ulm known to all the world. (Cheers.) There was a secret connected with all parties—that the extreme of a party were often obliged to place themselves under a moderate leader; and gen- tlemen opposite did so, in the hope that when they got the right honourable Baronet into power they could coerce him to adopt the course which they wished to pursue: but in this, fortunately for the country, they were deceived. (Cheers.) It appeared to him a great point, that this measure and accompanying measures, should receive the support of the friends of Ireland and liberal government, and that they should not impair their strength by irritating discussions on past occur- rences. It was idle to reproach the Government for having adopted this and other measures, and having the support of their former opponents. The fact was, that now the two parties were materially dependent on each other; they could not carry out a just policy towards Ireland without the coOperatioa of the leaders of both sides: and in spite of all that had been said, of public sense and of rousing the spirit of the British lion, he had no doubt they must ultimately triumph over the opponents of good government, if they both cordially joined to carry out such measures as this.

He differed from many Members on both sides with respect to Repeal. He did not mean to say anything in palliation of the cry of Repeal, for he believed it to be most mischievous; but he did not believe that the fading on which it rested was to be treated as being so extremely absurd. The absurdity of millions of people, particularly when it assumed the character of national prejudice, was al- ways formidable; it was not the less so even if it had no foundation. There was now a new generation in Ireland, who, as they grew up, adopted Repeal as their faith, believing it to be the great remedy for the evils of their country. The sigi- teflon for Repeal, having existed so long, had assumed a character of great di culty and of great importance; and the greatest Minister would do well to struggle against the prevailing feeling, and to endeavour to obviate its alarming conse- quences. Sir Robert Peel had been taunted very severely for what he had said with regard to the Oregon question: Mr. Buller thought he had been taunted for it rather too severely, for it was quite clear that this concession to the Irish people was not caused by any apprehension of danger. (" Hear, hear! ") The right honourable Baronet had, .perhaps, used a rather foolish phrase or metaphor; but that Nemesis which presided over their debates had amply revenged the cause of good metaphors and of cautions language through the honourable Member for Peebles-shire. (Laughter.) When he read the speech of that houourable Mem- ber, and found that, amidst his necessities, at the close of that speech he brought

out the "small black cloud not bigger than a man's hand," and it for the edification of the people of Peebles-shire, he could not help ' • that the thinking First Lord of the Treasury had been amply punished by the But it was well worth looking to the state of Ireland as a great evil; and by dealing with it in a proper spirit they would remove all allusion to the Oregon territory. There were many Oregon questions involved in our policy towards Ireland; for as long as our false policy was pursued, there never would be wanting an excuse for any nation with hostile feelings to this country to raise some question of the kind.

Viscount INGESTRE stated the grounds on which he voted for the bill— He had hitherto always voted against the annual grant to Maynooth, but he did so because having had an opportunity of visiting that establishment, he had felt it to be his duty to vote against the grant, because he considered it to be of an amount too small—(" Hear, hear!" and laugkter)—to be of any advantage in respect of the object for Which it was intended. He admitted that if this measure had been preposed by honourable gentlemen opposite, he should certainly have opposed it--(" Hear, hear!" from the Opposition benches)--and for this reason, that, when those gentlemen were on the Ministerial side of the House, there was a constant system of truckling to the party over the water; whilst, on the contrary, the present Government had first asserted the majesty and supremacy of the law, and then endeavoured to give to Ireland measures of conciliation. He should have preferred, however, to limit the bill to a term of live or seven years, by way of trial.

At midnight the debate was adjourned.

The debate was resumed on Tuesday by Sir HENRY WINSTON BARRON. So low had the interest fallen at this period, that soon after he began them was SD attempt to "count out" the House; but that was defeated by se- veral Members, who rushed in to make up the required number.

Meanwhile, the discussion proceeded very tamely on both sides; any thing like novelty lying principally in the personality of some of the remarks.

Mr. FOLLIOTT read a letter from Tyrone, declaring that Sir Robert Peel must now be regarded by all as the enemy of Protestantism—

After what he now saw Ministers doing, he should aot be surprised if they came down next year with a proposal for the permanent payment of all the Roman Catholic clergy. Nor, indeed, would he be much surprised at anything they did.

Mr. Strew, who naively remarked that the inheritance of Ireland seemed to be discord, attacked another member of the Government— Sir James Graham had described the bill darkly as the first step in a new course of policy towards Ireland: Mr.Shaw wished to know what was the meaning of that observation. Sir James had retracted certain phrases which he used with respect to Ireland two years ago: hut why did he let such a long period pass, and wait until the present time to make his elaborate retractation? There was something in these proceedings of the right honourable Baronet which did not meet the eye. Did the right honourable Baronet mean to repudiate the policy hitherto pursued towards Ireland by the right honourable gentleman at the head of the Govern- ment. Sir Robert Peel had inculcated civil equality for the Roman Catholics on all the representatives of the Crown who had been sent to that country since his accession to power: did the right honourable Baronet the Home Secretary intend to give equality to the Catholic religion, as well as political equality to its pro- fessor? lie had always deplored the announcement of his right honourable friend the First Lord of the Treasury that Ireland would be his difficulty. It had been well observed, that to believe anything difficult or impossible was the surest way to make it so. Such predictions had always a tendency to their own fulfilment: they invited attack; and he verily believed that much of the annoy- ance and evil of the monster meetings and State prosecutions in Ireland was in- duced by that declaration. (" Hear, hear!") For his own part, he had never regarded the policy pursued in respect of the monster meetings first, or the State prosecutions after, a judicious one. One thing he was bold to affirm, that when Sir Robert Peel came into office, there was no portion of his party more ready and anxious than the great majority of his Irish supporters to cooperate with him in a truly conciliatory course of Irish policy; tempering firmness in the administra- tion of the laws with the utmost moderation; holding a perfectly equal balance between all parties, and preferring no man, in regard to civil office, on account of his religious creed. Mr. Shaw was well aware that many, perhaps, on his own aide of the House even, would he disinclined to agree with him in that assertion. They themselves thought Ireland so difficult, they did not know it—they would not learn it. Still, he made the assertion most sincerely and advisedly. He would have been very sorry, he would have felt hurt indeed, had Sir Robert Peel at- tributed to him that he would have desired to see Ireland governed on what Sir James Graham had designated as the old principles of Protestant ascendancy. Sir Robert Peel had really known his sentiments; and, however it might be his misfortune to differ on any particular point from his right honourable friend—even though they might be altogether divided on politics, or sit at different sides of the House—still he could never do otherwise than appretiate Sir Robert's good opi- nion, and entertain for him a feeling of affectionate esteem and regard. He owned that he was comparatively indifferent as to the opinion of Sir James Graham. * * * The government of Ireland, as administered by the right honourable Baronet, was a solemn mockery. All the business of Ireland was now neither permitted to be transacted out of the Home Office nor done in it. The Secretary or Ireland might think himself the Minister of that country ; but in point of fact he was nothing else than a clerk to the Home Office. (Laughter.) Sir ROBERT Imams, who admitted that in the hundred hours' debate on this bill scarcely a single point remained undiscussed, offered a final opposi- tion. He reproached Ministers with rousing up popular feeling that might have continued to slumber, but that had now burst forth with a fury which it would be difficult to check. He argued that he was not chargeable with bigotry because he felt bound not to pay for the dissemination of doctrines which he believed to be erroneous. He descanted on the awful responsi- bility of Sir Robert Peel— The position of his right honourable friend at the head of the Government was one more important than had ever before been occupied by any public man in this country. For the last quarter of a century every measure adopted by the Legis- lature had originated with or had been supported by him, either as a Minister or as a leader of the Opposition, with the single exception of the Reform Bill. He had effected a great reform in the Criminal Law; he had been instrumental in sending forth the Ecclesiastical Commission; he had been concerned in the mea- sures of Church-reform and the amendment of the Poor-laws. (Cheers and laughter on the Qppoaition benches.) He was merely calling the attention of his right honourable friend to the awful responsibility that he incurred in wielding the vast power which circumstances had placed in his hands. No Whig Govern- ment could have carried its measures without the aid of his right honourable friend. For example, the union of the two Canadas never could have been ac- complished without his assistance; and there was no one who read the masterly protest of the Duke of Wellington could entertain the least doubt that if his right honourable friend had voted with his party, the measure must have proved unsuccessful, blest assuredly, no one else could have proposed the bill now under consideration, with the least chance of carrying it. The noble Lord the Member for London, with more personal friends than any man in that House, would never have attempted any such bill with the least prospect of suc- cess. But, in addition to the great and extraordinary power enjoyed by his right honourable friend, there was a distinguishing feature which marked the present times: he alluded to the great degree of favour shown to the Church of Rome. It was encouraged by her Majesty's Ministers both at home and abroad. (Cries of" Oxford, Oxford!") The opinions of the University of Oxford were to be collected from its decrees in Convocation. But no one could doubt, that both at home and abroad the Church of Rome was encouraged by the Minister of the Crown. The other night he saw upon the orders another Roman Catholic Relief Bill. Surely, one would have thought that in 1829 the Roman Catholics had ob- tained all that they asked for. This measure had been now nearly three months on the table of the House—it legalized the introduction and ministered to the succession of the monastic orders of the Roman Catholic Church; and yet the at- tention of the House had not been called to those measures in the recent policy of this country, which constituted a prima facie case that the Roman Catholic Church at home and abroad had received direct encouragement from the Government. Look at what had occurred in Canada. There, in 1797, an University was established to support the Protestant Church. Land to the extent of 22,973 acres—(A laugh)—the honourable Member for Kerry laughed: he did not know whether it was a laugh at the credulity of those who supposed that such a grant was made with any intention of its being perms nently continued; but it was clear that her Majesty's Government had taken the advice of the hononrable Member, or of his great namesake, or of some of those who concurred with him in religion or policy; for the Governor-General of Canada had brought in a bill to take away from that Protestant University the great property vested in it by the predecessors of the present Government; and by a majority of eleven it had been decided that that property should be trans- ferred to an University the great feature of which was that no religious test should be required from those who attended it. This proceeding justified him in saying, that abroad as well as at home there had been a discouragement of the Protestant Church, and an encouragement of that Church which was opposed to it. He considered that he was justified in regarding the measure now before the House as part of a great scheme of the kind, and not as an insulated measure. It had been described by some Members of the Government as only an instalment of a great debt of justice already due: but until he heard the right honourable Baronet at the head of the Government make the same assertion, he should con- tinue to indulge the hope that the measure might still be regarded only as bad in itself, and not with reference to its consequences. He hoped that the excitement the measure had produced in the country afforded a security that no Minster would propose, in the present generation at least, any ulterior measures for the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland.

Among the supporters of the bill was Mr. Gonsow- On the ground that having always befriended the Protestant Church in Ireland by opposing the Appropriation-clause, it was now his duty to look about him and see what he could do for the benefit of the Roman Catholics, who were the more numerous body.

Colonel RAWDON heartily thanked Government for the evidence of their good-will towards Ireland; but declared that, in consequence of the agita- tion against the measure in this country, the hope in Ireland of obtaining justice is every day growing fainter—

He saw creed arrayed against creed; he heard constantly used the words "Pro- testant England," and he could not forget that there was Catholic Ireland. He had seen the former Administration become weak and powerless because it was disposed to do justice to Ireland. He now saw a Iffimster, who till lately was all-powerful, straggling amidst the billows of Anti-Catholic prejudices, and only saved from shipwreck by the generosity of his opponents. Could be help feeling, When he saw every blimater, as he was disposed to do justice to Ireland-km murg powerless—could he help feeling that there was an Anti-Catholic, which he was afraid meant an Anti-Irish, spirit abroad in the country? About half an hour after midnight the debate was again adjourned.

The discourse was taken up on Wednesday by Colonel VERNER ; who averred that the reason why the Protestants of the North of Ireland do not more generally petition against the bill is, that the petitions have been disregarded by the House. He mentioned a fact to show the alarm which exists among the Protestants of Ireland—

A manufactory had recently been established in that country for supplying the gentry with chain-armour; and such was the demand that the manufacturer could not supply it fast enough. The most insidious attempts were now making to alienate the Protestants from their attachment to British connexion; and 11 this bill were suffered to pass, it would go far to exasperate their feelings.

Mr. Catertatome opposed the bill at considerable length. The religious part of the question having been exhausted, he discussed it on political grounds.

He explained the paucity of petitions "against the measure by relating cases in which Protestants had been murderously attacked for their opinions; some of them being converts from Catholicism, whose assailants were convicted at Tralee in March last. It is usual to consider Ireland as divided into two parties Pro- testants and Catholics; but the Catholics themselves are divided into three Parties. There is a large and influential party of moderate men' of whom Mr. Wyse is an example, who wished to see mischievous agitation put down and a strong govern- ment established—a party which the Government are perfectly right to support; the Republican party of the Nation, looking for sympathy from America, and desiring such a separation as that of Belgium from Holland ; and Mr. O'Connell's riarZar, gigedetybtyhe3.e,O.ea00kpariestsei GreeNnedmermedel!zwtehrfeultlebye, flautist tical iesenteehusezemd. to procure repeal of the Union. At last the Government took upon itself to act; the convulsion was met, and put down. At that critical time Sir James Graham applied to the clergy of the Established Church in the North of Ireland to use their influence over their flocks to prevent an outbreak on the one side, which was certain to be followed by an outbreak on the other, and then after no long interval, by a civil war. They did use their influence, and the Irish Secretary, thanked them for their successful use of it. Did they in return ask for any of the sordid gifts of office, or for laws of increased severity against their Roman Catholic fellow-subjects No such thing: they asked only for security—they asked the Government to put down the Riband as it had put down the Orange Associations, and to prohibit monster meetings as it had prohibited Orange pro- cessions. What was the answer which they received from Sir James Graham? An answer, hardly civil, couched in the most haughty terms, amounting to a peremptory, refusal of their application. All that was then required in Ireland to continue the tranquillity which had thus been restored, was a firm, temperate, and equal administration of the law. But was that the policy pursued by Minis- ters? No; their policy was to introduce this measure, which, according to their statement, was to unite to the British Crown all the different parties into which Ireland was divided. To show that Ministers had been completely disappointed in the results which they expected to flow from it, he read several extracts from the Nation newspaper and from the letters of Bishop Higgins, about the cry for Repeal making the Queen's coursers tremble. He asked Sir Robert Peel whether he meant to make the Irish priesthood amenable to the law? If he did, then there are these difficulties which he would have to encounter. Unless he were prepared to grant Repeal, he could have no peace with a priesthood sworn to obtain it. Did he mean to protect the converts from the Roman Catholic religion in Ireland unharmed? Then he referred Sir Robert to the trial which took place at Tralee, and to another which tool plate at Nenagh, in March 1843, resp.wting a person who had prosecuted it man for, an assault, had been denounced by a priest from the altar on the following Sunday, ...a hod been murdered on the same evening. The present measure has three great blunders in it an Irish blunder—it perpetuates an institution which fifty years' experience has shown to produce the most illiterate priesthood in Europe; an English blunder—endeavouring to force the Roman endowment down the throats of a Proteetant people • and the third blunder—Sir Robert Peel's having riven in twain the powerful party which rendered its disinterested support; ex- changing that support of independent but honest friends, to live a brief but inglorious season on the forbearance of his foes.

Mr. FORBES MACKENZIE replied to an allusion which had been made to himself by Mr. Colquhoun; wishing that it had been more directly personal and made in any other place. He asked Sir Robert Peel, in the presence of the House, whether he had ever had any communication with him relative to his present appointment before he had given his vote in favour of the se- cond reading of this bill? He had been much misrepresented; the reports of his speech having been taken from the Radical papers of Scotland, which gave a distorted caricature of it.

Mr. WYSE recalled the House to the question before it; continuing the arguments in favour of the measure; and in doing so, he vindicated his quo- tation from Luther—

"What he read to the House was a fair and a faithful translation from Luther. The words he had quoted as Luther's were these= See how rich a Christian is, since he cannot lose his soul, do what he will, unless he refuse to believe • for no sin can damn him but unbelief.' The following was the original Latin; 'he took it from De Capt. Babylonis, tom. ii, f. 264: 'Its rides quam dives sit homo Christianus; etiam volens non potest perdere salutem,quantiscunque peccatis, nisi nolet credere: nulla enim peccata earn possunt damnare, nisi sole incredulitas.'" Sir JAMES GRAHAM also began by referring to personal allusions which had been made to himself ; Mr. Shaw and Mr. Colquhoun having amused him of interfering too actively with the functions of the Irish Secretary. He contended that he had never exceeded the powers exercised by all his predecessors, and that it was his duty to exercise control over the Irish Government on behalf of the Cabinet of which he is a member. Mr. Col- quhoun had also complained of the present weakness of the Irish Govern- ment: a very singular complaint, considering that he had now the assist- ance of Lord Heytesbury as Lord-Lieutenant, whose talents would bear comparison with those of any of his predecessors in that high office. He quoted Burke as an authority for the opinion, that when questions of re- ligion arise in matters of state, they must be decided on political and not on theological grounds; deprecating Mr. Spooner's assertion that the Roman Catholic religion is an "awful delusion.'

Mr. Colquhoun had referred to the disturbed state of Ireland. Unfortunately, he could not deny that crimes against person and property are still rife; but if you look to the honesty of the men and to the chastity of the women of Ireland, as testa of the doctrines taught by the priests of Maynooth, the Irish will bear comparison with any people on the face of the earth. The crimes against person and property arise from causes quite independent of religion, and rooted deep in the perverted feeling's of bygone centuries. Considering the extreme poverty of the great majority of the people of Ireland, he was not surprised at the deep love and veneration which they felt for that Church from which they received the con- solations of religion in distress, disease, and death. He had been told to remember that he was the Protestant Minister of a Protestant Sovereign; but he could not forget that he was also the Minister of a Sovereign who had eight millions of sub- 'sets so loving the Boman Catholic priesthood. He regretted the terms of con-

tamely used at Exeter Hall; such as the inscription "The Gospel of Christ" on one aide of a banner, andon the other "No peace with Anti-Christ," and the reso-

lution" That there LS one fundamental principle of union in a steady abhorrence

of the Roman Catholic religion." "This,' said Sir James, "may be the principle of union between Wesleyans and Independents; it may be the fundamental ground- work of union between different parties in this House, forming a strange combi- nation: but it is my duty to say, that you cannot rest on that ground—namely, a steady abhorrence of the Roman Catholic religion—the union between Great Britain and Ireland."

Combating the arguments against Maynooth, he quoted the late Lord Lon- donderry for the policy of attaching the Roman Catholics to the State through their priesthood. He had been asked in what direction the future mea- sures of Government would proceed: "The measures that her Majesty's Government contemplate and desire may be well expressed in the exact terms used by Lord Grenville immediately after the Union, when a simi- lar question was put to him: he said, that the measure contemplated by the Government was a measure for conciliating the wannest affections of the Irish people, whose various interests and feelings must be consulted, and for in- suring the success of a system of unreserved benevolence and kindness towards the great body of the people of Ireland. ("Hear, hear!") That is my answer to the question. It is impossible to forget that the great body of the Irish people is Roman Catholic. The antagonist principles, about which so much has been said—the regarding their doctrines with abhorrence—these are principles which I say are incompatible with the peace and safety of this empire: they must be discarded; they cannot be maintained with safety."

Mr. SILEIL expressed infinite satisfaction at Sir James Graham's speech, and proceeded to defend the bill.

He quoted the following prediction about Maynooth, made at the time of its foundation by Edmund Burke—" If that business is conducted as it ought to be, and as surely it will be, I expect more good from it than from anything which has happened in our day." Ile vindicated Maynooth from the charge of fostering agitation. When the Roman Catholic Association was formed, a great sacerdotal agitation was commenced; but it was by Dr. Doyle, who had been educated not at Maynooth but in Portugal; and an authoritative declaration emanated from Maynooth, preachingsubmission and allegiance to the constituted authorities. He denied that the Protestants of Ireland are generally opposed to the measure; quoting a petition in its favour signed by almost everybody of consideration in Galway—by such men as Mr. Mansergh St. George and Mr. James Daly. He imputed the English opposition to the Dissenters, whom he believed to have been misled by false information. Mr. Bright had put into his hands a pamphlet widely circulated among the Wesleyans. "That document is headed thus= Ex- tracts from the Class-books used at Maynooth.' Mark that. When I read that document down, I was astonished, and I applied for information to others. I found among thenaines enumerated, Maldonatns, St. Thomas Aquinas, Bellar-

mine' and Bailly. Now, some of these books are not class-books at Maynooth. That fact the compiler of this pamphlet, who put it together as purporting to be

extracts out of nine or ten authors used at Maynooth, keeps out ot view, and gives extracts only from two or three of the authors used there. The compiler of this pamphlet gives an extract from Bailly. Bailly was originally published in France, and the compiler tells us—' He says speaking of oaths, that a superior of a religious order can absolve from all oaths a member of his religious order.' Sir, I own I was surprised when I read this; I was astonished at the proposition. What

is it that Bailly does state? That a superior of a religious order can absolve

the members of the order from their oaths in all matters which are in the power of the superior and relate to the order." Mr. Shell did not ap- prove of all contained in class-books used at Maynooth, any more than hkapproved of all passages in any other writer—Blackstone's distinction, for ex- ample, between maim,' prohihitum and malmn in se. Maynooth must be judged by its results—the private virtues for which the Irish people are conspicuous. All these considerations justify Sir Robert Peel's courageous perseverance with the measure. "I have no hesitation in saying, that if the right honourable gentleman proceeds as he has begun—if his policy be conformable to the principles upon which this bill is founded—he will be able to prove that the Government of Ire- land can be carried on without force; every speck in the political horizon will be dispersed; and he will entitle himself to the lasting gratitude of the Irish people."

Mr. PLUMPTRE urged inquiry into the class-books used at Maynooth, before the third reading of the bill; and explained, that it was against the Roman Catholic religion, and not against their Roman Catholic brethren, that the English Protestants had declared their "abhorrence."

Mr. Sergeant MURPHY retorted Mr. Colquhoun's allusion to the trials in Ireland, to show how the proselytism appealed to the meanest and most ignorant minds—

At a trial in Nenagh, one witness stated that he had been a seaman, and was a pensioner; he had a wife and five children; he became a convert about six years ago; he was asked if he would become a Christian man and go to church, and told that

Mr. Gare would give him plenty of wine: Mr. (hire gave him a house; witness did not pay any rent, and he did not think any other of the converts paid rent. The

witness continued—" I am a real Roman Catholic now. It was not from any great conscience I became a Protestant. I kept up the pretence for two years; and latterly I became fond of it, because I was getting money. I should stick to it,

but I was not getting money latterly. My conscience changed when money grew

scarce." [Mr. Maclean afterwards said, that the Jury did not believe this part of the evidence.] Another case was that of a gentleman who deceived two old ladies, of whom one was, singularly enough, named "Peebles": he said that he was a good Protestant---so long as he wished to "keep his place." Another wit- ness was asked what induced him to become a Protestant: to which he had no other reply to make than that his belly compelled him to do so. Those were the proselytes of whom Mr. Colquhoun so loudly boasted.

Mr. FERRARO retorted upon Sir Robert Peel—the Maroto of Conserva- tism—the threat which he had used when in opposition against the Whigs, that they would have to fight the battle of the constitution in the registra- tion courts.

Lord FRANCIS EGERTON, as one of the English Protestants protested against the supposition that their universal opinions were expressed by Mr.

Plumptre and Mr. Ferrand; and declared, that if statesmen were to pro- ceed upon the principle that they were dealing with " idolatry " in Ireland, they had better abandon their dominion altogether. He accepted Mr. Col- quhoun's description of the state of Ireland; but said, that if "enforcement

of the law" were all they had to propose, that discussion was perfectly idle. Be felt a greater anxiety about this, he might almost call it, paltry conces-

sion, than he did about Catholic Emancipation. For himself, he studied

the Sacred Volume without reading it through the medium of the Pope or of the Roman Catholic priesthood: he thought those who did so in error; but he did not arrogate to himself infallibility in the articles of his creed—

He felt that the days of inspiration were gone by. "Our young men do not n ee visions; our old men do not dream dreams." 'There were no miracles per- formed now at the doors of Exeter Hall. The cloud did not march before him by day, nor the pillar of flame by night. Believing that there was light for his guidance, he did not walk with suffici.mt confidence to be enabled to say that others, who were pursuing parallel or perhaps widely different paths, were under a sad delusion, or were marching onward to their ruin. (Loud and continued cheers.) The goal which they all sought was common to all he hoped, he prayed, he believed, that many of them would reach it in common.

Sir ROBERT PEEL, rising under an impression that the debate was alma to close, and considering the merits of the question entirely exhausted, made some remarks on the speeches of Mr. Bankes and Mr. Colquhoun. He first addressed himself to prove that the historical pamphlet of Dr. Duige- non is not trustworthy. It represented the trustees of Maynooth College as wait. tog until the Rebellion of May 1798 broke out before they expelled any persons implicated: whereas they issued an instruction to the President that he should expel all persons abetting any doctrines which tended to subvert due regard to the constituted authorities; and in point of fact, every individual so implicated was expelled ten days before the rebellion broke out, although all had expressed their regret and had taken the oath of allegiance. He also accepted Mr. Col- quhoun's description of the state of Ireland; he would admit that Protestant opinion is not free—that there are priests educated at Maynooth who denounce from the altar appeals to the law—that the priesthood are all agents in favour of Repeal: be it so; what remedy would Mr. Colquhoun propose ? Government had not neglected precautions. During the dangers of the year 1843, they had 30,000 soldiers and 10,000 police in Ireland, and a large naval armament on the coast; and the House were aware, that the exhibition of that force and the institu- tion of the State prosecution had been so far successful that the Repeal rent had daily diminished, and that the prestige of the Repeal leaders had been destroyed. Mr. Colquhoun next censured the Government for introducing at such a time their present bill; as if, just when the law had been vindicated were not precisely the moment for measures of conciliation. Mr. Colquhoun said that it was their duty to "enforce the law": but how was it to be enforced? By the trial by jury? But, even after agitation was suppressed, the trial by jury was not an available instrument in a country where the great majority of the population had arrayed itself in hostility to the law. Ministers had therefore addressed them- selves to the consideration of remedial measures, and had taken their present course after full deliberation upon all the consequences which it might entail upon them. He deeply regretted the severance to which it had led from those political friends who now declared their intention to withhold from him all political con- fidence; but nevertheless, he must claim for the Executive Government, which was responsible for the result, the absolute right, without reference to past events or to party considerations, to risk the confidence of their supporters rather than abstain from acting as they believe the circumstances of the case to require. "Sir, I will not further notice the observations of the honourable Member for Knaresborough, than to say that it is a most material misapprehension which some honourable gentlemen entertain with respect to the position of a Minister of the Crown. I am as proud, I hope, as any man, of the confidence of a great party; but I cannot admit that a Minister is to be held tabs under such great obligations to the party who placed him in the position he occupies. (Cheers.) And for myself I can say, that I shall consider it the happiest day of my life if

he

I am pernutted to act re as an independent Member of Parliament, unconnec:ted even with any party, rather than hold office upon such a servile tenure as that we should be obliged to consider whether upon every occasion the advice which we gave our Sovereign was in exact conformity with every opinion of every man of the party by whom we are supported. (Cheers.) It would be most difficult to admit or to put into action any such principle in any party, because in attempt- ing only what would be acceptable to the honourable Member for Knaresborough, we might have the misfortune to forfeit the confidence of a noble friend near me, the Member for North Lancashire, (Lord Francis Egerton); and I will for myself claim the right of giving that advice, at any time which I believe the interests of the country require. I have been charged with acting in defiance of public opinion, and with showing MI intentional disregard of it,. For public opinion, believing it to be influenced by religious considera- tions, I entertain the greatest respect; but I have maintained, and I still adhere to the _expression, that, so far from public opinion inducing. me to abandon or to waver in my course—I do deliberately repeat, though not in any arrogant defi- ance of public opinion' that there are national interests, not unconnected with this public opinion, which make us adhere with still greater force to the course we have adopted. (Cheers.) If I thought that the opposition raised to this Tote would now prevail—if I thought that the principle on which that opposition is founded were to be trium ant—I confess that I should despair of the main- tenance of amicable relations between Great Britain and Ireland. I do think, there- fore, that it is of peculiar importance, for the purpose of mitigating the evils which would arise from the success of the opposition—I do think it is of the utmost importance, that public men should show to the population of Ireland that there is not the slightest abandonment of the course on wh ch we have entered, and that we are contented to make any sacrifice, now and for ever in the maintenance of the opinions in practice which we have placed upon record. He still adhered to the policy of the measure. It has been received in Ireland with as much approbation and gratitude as Ministers ever expected. The priesthood seem in general gratefully to acknowledge the boon; and who ever expected that agitation would immediately cease? "By this measure we are cutting up the trade of agitation, and we must expect that the agitators will be dissatisfied. Do not take it for granted that every angry paragraph in a newspaper, and that every speech at every weekly meeting, are indications of the feelings of the people of Ireland. All suppose that the Protestant feeling of Ireland is represented by a small section from the North of Ireland, and that the Catholic feeling is repre- sented by Conciliation Hall. Nothing can be so erroneous. There is a great and intermediate class of Protestant and of Catholic feeling which is not influenced by either of these extremes; and I do now believe that the course pursued by her Majesty's Government has greatly diminished the influence of the agitators, and has conciliated, I will not say the confidence of the Irish, but it has diminished the desire of the great body of the Catholics of Ireland to connect themselves with turbulence and agitation. He took the opportunity of expressing his deep sense of the honourable and disinterested motives by which the great body of those who are opposed to him in political life have been actuated in the support which they have given to this measure. "It would be unbecoming in me to offer, and unbecoming in them to receive, any expression of personal acknowledgment. I believe that they have acted from a sense of public duty; that that has been their influencing motive, and that that alone can be their object. I perfectly well knew, in proposing and in resolutely adhering to this measure, what the consequences mightf be, in alien- ating from me many whom I sincerely esteem. On the other hand' I can claim no compensation by any demand upon the gratitude of gentlemen to whom I am habitually opposed. I am bound to admit, that their continued gratitude is rather due to those who have been their constant and uniform coadjutors through a long series of years. From them, therefore, I claim no gratitude. We profess to have acted upon our sense of duty; that is our only merit. In so acting, we have been prepared to incur—we are prepared to incur—any risk which may follow it. (Cheers.) But our consolation and compensation will be complete, if the result of our measures be, not to conciliate the support of opponents, but to engender a kindly feeling between Ireland and Great Britain, and to increase the chances of maintaining a perfectly amicable connexion and relation between those two parts of this great empire." (Continued cheering.) Lord Joux RUSSELL addressed himself to the English Dissenters. He admitted that, originally, he should have been disposed rather to agree with them in reducing the Irish Established Church than to endow Romanism: but he showed how the Whig Ministers had uniformly failed in such an endeavour; being compelled to carry the 'Tithe Bill without the Appropriation-clause. He cited

an adnaission which had fallen from Lord Ingestre, that he would not have sup- ported this very measure had it emanated from the Whigs. No doubt, the Oppo- sition might have defeated this bill at its second reading: but, whether that defeat had resulted in stopping the proposal of other measures favourable to the wishes of the Irish people, or in throwing out the Ministry, the Opposition would have

remained equally unable to i. tedy the inequality which is the just complaint of Ireland. The present measure proposes, not by reducing the Protestant Church, but by elevating the Catholic Church, to produce something like equality. For- merly, the Conservative Opposition used to attack the Whig Government tor want- ing energy in the administration of justice: he belonged to a party which does not make weapons of such taunts: nevertheless, Sir Robert Peel's confession, that trial by jury is not an efficient instrument to govern Ireland, is very distress- ing and humiliating, it shows that there is an alienation in the people of Ireland from the whole system of government—that the present measure would clearly not suffice to cure the disorders of that country. "I hope that disease may be cured; that we may now be on our way to better times. But there must be other measures; recourse must be had to a further policy—I don't know that I should say of conciliation, for I don't want to use the wor&-bat of justice towards Ireland. Nor must we any more hear that old (Sy of Oh, how ungrateful the Irish are ! we give this grant to Maynooth, and yet they are not thankful' This has been the continual parrot-cry ever since you first relinquished the atrocious Penal Laws. You said, Only think of these Catholics! we have allowed them to educate their own children—and yet they are not grateful: we have allowed them to have priests of their own religion, without fulling, transporting, or imprisoning them—and yet they are not grateful: we have permitted them to ride horses which may be of the value of a hundred and fifty pounds—and yet they are not grateful for the indulgence: we have allowed them to go to mass--and yet they are not grateful: we have allowed them even to in- herit landed property—and yet this barbarous and savage nation will not be they still ask for other things.' To be sure, Sir, they ask for other things; and they will ask for other things—(" Hear, hear!" from Mr. Shell)— until with respect to England and Ireland there is a perfect and just equality. (Loud cheers.) And then, when you can say that there is perfect and just equal- ity, I shall fear nothing from this cry for a repeal of the Union, formidable and powerful as it is among great masses of the people of Ireland at the present moment."

Lord John drew a picture of what would happen were Ireland separated from England—when Ireland would be made the battle-field with foreign nations, to the destruction of her advancing commerce and improving agriculture; a state of things injurious to England, but ruinous to Ireland. "But before I can hope to put that argument with any effect—before I can argue it in detail—before I can make it a matter on which I can expect Irishmen to listen coolly to reason—I think I am bound on every occasion and in every way to show, that if there is any privi- lege which Englishmen enjoy and Irishmen wish to have, we are ready to grant it. Whatever may have been the former proceedings of this country—whatever indif- ference I may admit that England has displayed towards Ireland in former times— I am prepared to say that there is a great change of opinion and of feeling with regard to Ireland."

Soon after Lord John Resqell's speech, the House divided—For the motion, 317; against it, 184; majority for the third reading, 133.

On the motion that the bill do pass, Mr. TwomAs DUNCOMBE moved an additional clause limiting its operation to three years. Sir ROBERT PEEL observed, that the limitation would not remove any great number of the objections made to the measure, while it would lessen its beneficial influ- ence. On a division, the clause was negatived, by 243 to 145; majority against the limitation, 98.

The bill then passed; and the House adjourned at half-past two on Thursday morning.

SPEANERS IN THE THREE-DAYS DEBATE. Pot- the third reading—Mr. SPGeachy, Mr. Bickham Escott, Mr. Mangles Mr. Charles Buller, Sir Valentine

Blake' ' Lord Ingestre, Sir IL W. Barron, Sir Denham Norreys Mr. Godson, Colo-

nel Rawdon, Mr. Milnes Gaskell, Mr. Montesquieu Bellew, Lord Harry Vane, Mr. Forbes Mackenzie, Mr. Wyse, Sir James Graham Mr. Shell, Mr. Sergeant Mur- phy, Captain Layard, Lord Francis Egerton, Sir Robert Peel, Lord John Russell. Against it—Mr. Ewart, Mr. George Bankes, Mr. Henry Marsland, Mr. Spooner,

▪ Folliott, Mr. Shaw, Sir Robert Inglis, Colonel Verner, Mr. Colquhoun, Mr. Darby, Mr. Plumptre, Mr. Ferrand, hfr. Maclean, Mr. George Palmer.

TRINITY COLLEGE, DUBLIN.

On Tuesday, Mr. BERNAL Ossonarc moved for a return of all monies derived from rents of College lands, endowments, bequests, fees on matri- culations, and taking of degrees; specifying the amount of income paid therefrom to the senior and junior Fellows, Professors, Scholars, and other officers of Trinity College, Dublin. This gave rise to a short but sharp discussion. Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE opposed the motion, on the ground, that being low down in the list of notices Members did not expect it to be brought forward_ Mr. Straw resisted, because the proposed inquiry would be one into private property, and because the motion was opposed by Go- vernment last year. Mr. WARD remarked, that that would be a reason -for Government's supporting it this year. Mr. OSBORNE, and other Mem- bers on his side, insisted that it would be desirable to know the ex- tent of the property possessed by Trinity College, as it might prove .Fsafficient to provide funds for all purposes of education in Ireland. 11r. SHEIL contended, that at least that part of the property which had been granted by the Crown, the confiscated lands of the Earl of Desmond, might be the subject of inquiry. Mr. WARBURTON cited the precedent of the inquiry into the Charities of England and Wales. Sir Thomas FRE- MANTLE, answered, that the English Universities were especially exempt from that inquiry. Sir ROBERT INGLIS added, that that inquiry took place under an act of Parliament; whereas the returns were now required under it mere order of the House. The motion was also opposed by Sir 'ROBERT PEEL, and supported by Lord JOHN Rrssara.. Eventually, it was negatived, by 82 to 53.

Lew REFORM.

In the Boum of Lords, on Monday, Lord BROUGHAM introduced a set of -bills for the amendment of English jurisprudence; first explaining the ne- ',washy of such measures- ' He referred to improvements effected in past years; averring that there never was a greater error than to suppose that although there had been a great deal of talk about it, no real progress had been made in the amendment of the law for the last twenty years. So far was that from being the opinion of the late Lord Eldon, that he said that Sergeant Maynard, in having outlived all the lawyers, had well nigh outlived all the law in the country. It was no exaggeration to say that so great had been the change made by gradual and mature amendments, that if many of the old lawyers—not merely Lord Hale and Lord Holt, but Lord Kenyon, Lord Ellenborough, Mr. Fearne, and Mr. Shadwell, once the ornaments of the Bench and of the profession—were to rise from the repose which they were now enjoying undisturbed, they would not recognize the law -which they had been accuetomed to expound. The Court of Chancery itself has not escaped the amend- ing hand ofthe lawgiver. In 1828, he made a statement in the Reese of Com- mons; and of sixty-two amendments which he then proposed, fifty-eight have '

since hem carried, besides a number of others, by which the law has been improved. Nevertheless, some thingsremain to be done; and he intended short!' to point out a few existing evils, and to propose remedies.

mat improvements have been made in the law of real property; but there re- mains one goad defect in the transfer of property. Deeds of sale are so needlessly prolix that they occasion enorm ous expense and multiply chances of flaws ; which are the more likely to occur since the conveyancer knows that they will not probably be discovered till after his death. A conveyancer who died about fifty years ago was found to have made mistakes by the score in his opinions; but none of thorn were discovered till after his death. Yet the smallest error may be of the greatest importance. In Langton versus Langton, the whole case arose from a single line being left out in copying a will relating to very large property in Oxfordshire' . The devise to the first son was left out; and the estate was given to the second, third, fourth, and other sons successively in tail male. The question was, what estate the eldest son took ? The Court of Queen's Bench were of opinion that he took no estate at a/L The Court of Common Pleas, in a Court of Error, were of a different opinion; and Lord Brougham was glad to agree with the Court of Common Pleas, that he did take. But it was a very narrow thing, and might have been decided the other way. Why not apply the principle which has re- cently been applied to railway bills, and peas a bill setting forth a form of deed guaranteed as sufficient by the Legislature; leaving it optional with parties Musa that form for the present? The Real Property Commissioners recommended the introduction of a bill for the registration of deeds. The want of it occasions insecurity and expense. Mr. Bellenden Kerr ,one one of the Commissioners, mentioned the case of a client who' in order to ascertain whether a party had an interest worth 54 was obliged to make searches in four diocesan districts; and in consequence of the complication of diocesan courts, the expense was 4001. It is well known that one of the greatest properties in the North of England was near going to a noble friend of his,a Main..ber of that House, in consequence of the want oia registry. The will was sup-

posed to be lost; but when they were about to break up an old post-chaise not worth 51., for tire-wood, they found a writing-desk inside, and in it was a will, under which a property of 30,0001. a year went from the heir-at-law to a devisee.

What objection is there to a registry? The answer begins and ends in one word —Yorkshire: in Yorkshire there is a Registration-Clerk with a sinecure worth 3,0001. or 4,0001. a year; and there are attarnies in Yorkshire who set themselves against the proposition for the lucre of gain. When he went once for a short recess of eleven days to enjoy the difference between the Court of Chancery and

the country, if he saw one placard in favour of Reform—which was then a subject of intense interest, particularly in Yorkshire—he saw a dozen calling upon the landlords to arouse themselves from their slumbers and resist the attack upon their sacred rights, by which all the flaws of title would be made patent to all the

world, and any man might see them for a Flailing: although there was a pro-, vision in order to meet this objection, long before it was urged, that no man

should see the registry relating to any property unless he had the authority of a party who was interested in it because he was about to become a purchaser or a seller. He might be asked, whether, as he felt so warmly in favour of a registry, he did not mean to bring in a bill for that purpose. His answer was, that he did not; for just now it would be hopeless, and would endanger other measures at which he had hopes. Much remains to be done to amend the law of evidence; but a prominent evil is the exclusion of the party interested from giving evidence touching property; an exclusion not enforced an the Court of Chancery. In the civil law, a great want is felt of scale power to declare the status of a man. In Scotland, when any question of that kind arises, it can be settled by a "declaratory action": but there is no such law in this country.

By the act creating the Central Criminal Court, no man can be imprisoned bee fore trial for more than an average of six or seven weeks: but in Lancashire or

Yorkshire he may be imprisoned for six or seven months. Why is that?-.' Because there are no Judges an the spot, and the rule of law is that every offence should be tried in the county in which it was committed. The bill which he should propose-would enable the Crown by an Order in Council, to appoint cer- tain central counties to which offender; might be brought; and to regulate the different scale of expense for persons in the county and those brought from the district. That would enable the Crown to send COMMISSiCIRS of Oyer and Ter- miner four times in the year instead of twice.

The next point would affect not only property but the feelings of individuals. If any person returning from a foreign country were to represent the state of society there to be such that no one could tell whether parties were married or

single—concubines, or keepers of concubines—whether their children were bas- talds or legitimate, or would or would not succeed to their parents' Foperty-

their Lordships would merely say that that was not a correct state of the law. But that is the state of the law in this country. With respect to some persons of the highest rank, none can tell whether they are married or not, their children legitimate or illegitimate. Is not that abominable? Lord Hardwicke's Act—a statute most inconsistent with itself—meant to provide that no person should marry under twenty-one years of age without the consent of his parents: it in fact only provided that he should not do so by licence, but by bans he might and welcome. Parties evade that law with the greatest ease by going to Birmingham or Manchester and getting married, or paying 5/ and going to Scotland by rail- way and getting married, setting Lord Hardwicke's act at defiance. That law was meant to prevent a needy adventurer from trepanning a rich heiress or heir into a marriage; but in that very respect the law is wholly inoperative. A bill introduced in 1823, to settle doubts about marriages eolemoized abroad, itself raised doubts: consisting only of three lines, it raised three important doubts; there is a conflict between the English and Scotch Judges as to the effects of marriage and divorce in Scotland; and the recent decision on Irish marriages raises doubts as to the marriages of Jews or persons residing in the Colonies. One of his bills would be directed to that subject; and in respect to Scotland he should propose, that a residence of at least three weeks should be required before a "Gretna Green" marriage—of twelve months before a divorce. Very great improvement has been effected by the abolition of arrest for debt, except in cases of fraud or contumacy: but it is a necessary consequence of that improvement, that the privilege of a Member of Parliament which protects 'him from arrest—in fact, from paying his debts—should also be abolished. It might be a useful privilege when arrest for debt might have been employed with poli- tical or factious objects; but that is no longer the case: and bow is a man who

cannot obey the law and pay 201. to his creditor fit to sit in either House of Par- liament as a legislator or A judge? There is a law to prevent a bankrupt from sitting in the House of Commons, but none to prevent an insolvent; though bank- ruptcy merits some indulgent consideration, inasmuch as it may arise from no -fault of the bankrupt. That privilege must eventually be given up; and his bill on the subject would be called one to secure the independence of Parliament

Lord CAMPBELL remarked, that he would not occupy their Lordships* attention at that [the dinner] hour, when so thin a House was left ; he himself being, except Lord Brougham, the only representative of the

Opposition, and Lord Wharncliffe the only representative of the Ministe- rial side of the House. He bantered Lord Brougham on his nine bills—

his nine lives; particularly approved of the bill for shortening and facili- tating the conveyance of real property and regretted that one for the re- gistration of deeds had note been introduced.

Lord BROUGHAM said, he had a bill on that subject quite prepared; but he was afraid of raising a prejudiee against the other measures. He then laid his nine bills on the table; namely- "Au act for securing the real independent* of Parliament." "An act for facilitating the conveyance of real property." "An act for amending and declaring the law of marriage." 'An act for giving a remedy in certain cases by way of declaratory suits." "An act to facilitate the granting of leases." "An act to render the assignment of satisfied terms unnecessary." "An act for the admission as evidence of certain official and other documents."

"An act for enabling certain parties to be examined in the trial of civil actions."

"An act for furthering the administration of criminal justice." All the bills were read a first time, and ordered to be printed.

ADMINISTRATION OF CHARITABLE TRUSTS.

In the House of Lords, on Thursday, the LORD CHaricELLort moved the second reading of a bill to provide for the better administration of cha- ritable trusts.

In 1818, a Parliamentary Commission was appointed to inquire into the cha- ritable trusts of England and Wales, and it was continued by successive acts until 1837: its reports fill thirty-seven folio volumes; but attempts to legislate upon the subject have hitherto failed. With respect to the larger trusts, the Court of Chancery is a tribunal that could not be excelled; but its very nature makes it inapplicable to the smaller trusts, for the fees to counsel and other expenses would-entirely absorb the funds. For instance, a house at Battle in Sussex, pro- ducing 481. a year, was left to trustees for charitable purposes: it was advisable to sell the house, and they obtained power to do so from the Court of Chancery; which cost 3001., to be paid out of the charity-fund. The consequence of this state of things is, that in many instances the charity is lost. In one case there was no trustee, and a person bound to pay a rent of 301. a year did not continue the 'payment; subsequently, he was compelled to pay the arrears, amounting to 3701.: the costs exceeded 4001. Now the number of these small charities is very great: there are 13,000 under 51. a year, 18,000 under 101., 21,000 under 2111. and 25 under 501. With respect to such charities, there is practically no judicial control; a monstrous fact if it related only to private affairs, but much more so where the property is left for benevolent objects. die proposed to establish a tribunal, to consist of three Commissioners per- manently appointed. The limits of their jurisdiction he would recommend to to be all charities under 50/.; but that point of detail might be decided at a sub- sequent stage. It was necessary that their jurisdiction should be of a summary kind. The power which he gave to the Commissioners was, in the first place, to call for an account from trustees, to reform abuses in the trust, and to prevent mis- application of the funds. Another power which he gave them was of an administra- tive nature: it was the power of appointing new trustees, and the power of directing a sale of charity property, of exchanging it, of granting leases, and all the adminis- trative powers which were exercised under the Court of Chancery. He proposed also to give the Commissioners a limited power in respect of all the larger charities in the kingdom—that of calling for an account of their revenue and expenditure. The Commissioners would merely call for information; on detection of abuse, they would put in motion the machinery of the Court of Chancery, as at present. Another provision related to municipal charities. When the Municipal Corpora- tions Bill was under consideration, it was provided that charities should remain to a certain day under the administration of the Corporations; and that if Parlia- ment did not again interfere before that day, the charities should be administered under direction of the Court of Chancery. Parliament did not interfere, and it became the part of the Lord Chancellor to appoint new trustees. But by the present practice that is a very expensive process; and Lord Lyndhurst instanced several cases in which the cost ranged from 5001. to 750/. Now two or three re- spectable men, who would have an opportunity of knowing the parties on the spot, would be able in two or three hours, or at the utmost a day, to appoint or renew the trustees of a charity, and to do so with more benefit to the in- terests of the charity, and more satisfaction to all the parties concerned, than all this machinery which is now in operation and is so expensive. In order to remedy this, he would propose that the Commissioners should be invested with the power to fill up the vacant places of trustees. He knew it would be said that these offices would confer influence as regarded borough elections and the elections of Members of Parliament ; therefore he would make the trustees independent of Government: they would hold their offices during good behaviour' under oath binding them to the proper performance of their duties. At present, trustees are appointed by Masters in Chancery, who are themselves appomted by the Ministers of the Crown; and the decision of a Master may be set aside by the Lord Chancellor, who is one of the Ministry. The fired Commissioners would be appointed by the bill; subsequent vacancies would be filled up by the Ministry for the time being. The Commissioners therefore would hold their office by the same tenure as Judges. [Lord Lyndhurst after- werds said, that these Commissioners would be appointed by the Lord Chancellor, and that two of them must be barristers of high standing.] He would recom- mend, as a means of providing funds to carry out the bill, a percentage of one per cent from the charities; any deficiency to be made up out of the Consolidated Fund: but that would be a matter for the House of Commons to settle.

Several Law Lords, without opposing the motion for the second reading, took exception to details. Lord BROUGHAM objected to dispossessing the Masters in Chancery of their present functions. Lord Carruslaare ob- jebted to the omission of any power in the bill to provide trustees where nowt now exist. Lord CAMPBELL foresaw political difficulties in the ap- pointment of trustees in boroughs. All these Peers urged that the bill should be referred to a Select Committee.

The LORD CHANCIALLOR assented to that suggestion; and the bill was read a second time; the Committee to be appointed next day.

GEMECE.

In the House of Lords, on Thursday, Lord BEAUMONT drew attention to the state of Greece; which has verified the worst predictions of those who said that the people were not sufficiently advanced for self-govern- ment. Not only has Athens become the scene of the strangest intrigues, but on the frontier of Turkey an absolute system of brigandage has been eatablished, and Greece has assumed an attitude well calculated to excite alarm in Turkey. He quoted passages in Lord Aberdeen's despatches, which bcend him, in his own words, to take "strong and peremptory measures" to maintain the integrity of the Ottoman empire. Lord Beaumont described the three parties in Greece,—the "English party," headed by Mavrocorclato, the man in whom Europe would most confide; the Nappist or" Russian party," headed by Metaxa, who is always changing; and the "French party," headed by Coletti, the chief of the Pailkars, who were once the mi- litia of Turkey, but are now brigands. He alluded to the revolution and to the factious intrigues among those parties; strongly animadverting on the exclusion of Mavrocordato from the Chamber of Deputies by four times setting aside his election. More recently, the Greek Government heve distributed documents recommending an extension of the Greek frontier; have proposed to extend the franchise to Greeks residing in Turkey, appealing to those Greeks to raise an insurrection' and have placed an army of observation on the frontier, where blood luts already been ehecl. lie called upon Government to prevent Greece from em broiling the ,,-hole world; and concluded by moving for papers.

The Earl of -4.BEILUEEN replied, that the "army of observation" Wel nothing but a band of two or three dozen robbers; a real army having ste existence but in the noble Lord's imagination. He declined to follow Lord Beaumont in his criticism on the internal affairs of Greece. If King Otho had bad Ministers, perhaps the noble Lord might think that a misfortune which has also befallen other countries. As to English influence being lowered in Greece, it is not so: all the influence we can desire to possess must consist in the integrity, wealth, and enterprise of our merchants in their commercial dealings with that country; and British interests will always be protected. There is no disposition on the part of the Three Protecting Powers to tolerate any aggression on the Turkish territory. As to the papers, he had none to furnish, and must decline to hunt out the accounts relating to an outrage by a handful of robbers.

Lord BEAUMONT would not press for the papers; and the motion was withdrawn.

PRIVILEGE. On Monday, Sir FttEDERIGE THESIGER reported to the House of Commons the recent proceedings in the case of Howard versus Gossett; moving for the production of papers, and for the appointment of a Select Com- mittee to report upon the matter. After a few remarks from Lord HOWICE, on this result of the weak and pusillanimous course pursued by the House when its privileges were first attacked, and from Sir Rose= INGLIS in dissent from that view, the motion was affirmed.

On Tuesday, Sir FREDERICK THESIGER moved to nominate the following members as the Select Committee on Printed Papers—

Sir Robert Peel, Lord John Russell, Mr. Solicitor-General, Sir Thomas Wilde, Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland, Sir George Grey, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Mr. Francis Baring, Viscount Mahon, Mr. Warburton, MI. Wynn, Mr. Bernal, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Plgot, and the Lord-Advocate.

In reply to Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE, Sir FREDERICK THESIOER said, that another action had been brought against the Sergeant-at-Arms, by a person named Pearce, a clerk to Howard; and he believed that-the win nult in that case did not differ in any material respect from the other. Mr. DUNCOMBE raised a short dis- cussion as to the necessity of referring the subject to a Committee: which he and Mr. HUME denied; contending that the identical question at issue had been set- tled by a previous Committee. Sir FREDEtucE THESIGER represented, that the reference was necessary in order to put the House in posses-ion of the new facts of the case, and the grounds on which the decision of the Judges proceeded. In that view lie was supported by Sir Roemer PEEL, Sir ROBERT Ixwas, and Lord Join; Ressem- The motion was affirmed.

A NEW Weir was issued on Monday, for the County of Down, in the room of the Earl of Hillsborough, who has succeeded to the ldarquisate of 1)ownshire.

MONSTER MEETINGS IN IRELAND. On Tuesday, Mr. FERRANTE) alluded to the intended meeting at Tara, which he likened to the monster meetings that formed a subject of the State trials: and he asked Sir James Graham whether, in 1845, her Majesty's Government would assert the majesty of the law as they had done in 1843, and prevent those monster meetings from taking place; or whether they meant tacitly to allow Mr. O'Connell and the people of Ireland to trample the law under their feet? Sir JAMES GRAHAM replied, that the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland received directions from her Majesty's Government that the peace of Ire- land should be preserved according to the existing laws.

GAME-LAWS. In presenting petitions to the House of Lords against the Game- laws, on Wednesday, Lord CAmPBELL denied that the question is one between landlord and tenant, since the tenant should always protect himself by stipule, tions. Nevertheless, he asserted the necessity of further alteration, and hinted that it should be undertaken by Lord Deere; whose bill of 1831 effected a great improvement. Lord DACRE said, that he had a bill prepared; but he had de- layed it in deference to the House of Commons, who had a Committee sitting on the subject; and it would be but decent to await the decision of that Committee. If he could learn what the decision of the Committee would be, he would next week Lay the bill on the table.