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IRISH CORPORATION REFORM.

la the House of Commons, on Monday, Mr. BF.RNAL brought up the report of the Committee of the whole House on the Irish Muni- cipal Bill.

On the motion of Sir JAMES GRAHAM, the bill was recommitted.

Mr. O'CONNELL moved an amendment to the sixth or qualification clause, that the words " rated to the poor " be omitted, and the words 4' of the yearly value of 101." be inserted in the place thereof.

Mr. Sum O'Batax preferred a 51. franchise with rating to a 101. franchise without rating. flit4161$124., e opportunity of stating the reasons which tom occasion to vote against Sir Robert he was connected- He had long entertained a very strong opinion with respect to the Municipal Corporation question ; and it was, therefore, with great regret that he had in former years, seen that the opportunity of coming to a settlement respecting it had not been taken advantage of. Most sincerely did he now desire that they would come to an amicable settlement upon this question. There was no one, he was sure, who had seen the course which the present debate had taken, who must not be conscious that her Majesty's Ministers had abandoned the 5/. fran. chise. The difference between the two sides was as to the mode of ascertaining the 10/. franchise. It appeared to him, that ascertaining the 101. franchise by the net value was raising the franchise above 101. It was disputed that the amount above 10!. would be something more or something less ; but that the effect would be to raise the franchise higher in Ireland than it was in England and Scotland, could not be denied, and was not denied by those who Cat on the same side of the House with himself. He still, however, entertained the hope. that, after that great principle had been conceded—after agreeing to the amount of qualification—that some mode might be devised of coming to some concilia- tory termination, and not to hold over this measure for another year as a matter of irritation.

Mr. O'CONNELL heartily concurred with Mr. Lascelles. It was manifest that a 101. franchise tested by rating would not give the people of Ireland the same kind of Municipal reform that had been conferred on England and Scotland. He was sure that a 5/. franchise estimated by rating would be higher than a 101. franchise estimated by the value.

Mr. W. MILEs said he knew that, in the West of England, the rating of tenements was from 15 to 22 per cent. under the value.

Mr. PUSEY regretted that he had been prevented by absence from voting with Mr. Lascelles on a former occasion— It would be a deep disappointment to all moderate Reformers, and would do no credit to the legislative constitution of this country, if, upon a question so long considered, and upon which the peace of Ireland was so deeply involved, the Legislature were once more to separate without coining to a settlement cal- culated to satisfy the general expectation of the country.

Lord ELIOT considered that the Irish Corporation question impera- tively called for settlement— It appeared to him, looking at the state of Ireland and looking at the number of houses under 10!., that a smaller amount of qualification ought to he re- quired there in proportion to this country. He was afraid that, as the bill stood, with the schedules A and B, it would be difficult in the smaller towns to find persons qualified to act as councillors. He did not consider that this question was at all mixed up with the Church question ; though he could con- ceive that the Protestant Church would have felt jealous as long as it was left in the power of the corporations to return Members to Parliament. With respect to this bill, he must say that he conceived that a franchise of 10/. with a rating would exceed a 101. fair annual value.

Mr. SLANEY said, no doubt, it would be equal to la 10s.

Sir (hence CLERK reminded the House, that all Sir Robert Peel had contended for was a bond fide 101. qualification ; and bad only wished to avail himself of the rating clauses in the Poor Bill as the surest test of value.

Mr. INGHAM thought that the rating was the best test.

Mr. LITTON considered that the rating was necessary to prevent the repetition of the enormous perjury which every Member from Ireland must admit to be a deep degradation to his country.

Mr. O'CONNELL denied that there had been any wilful perjury. At the worst, there bad been only a different construction of the law rela- tive to the value of premises that conferred the right of voting.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that the business of the Committee was not to investigate charges of perjury, but coolly to consider the means of arriving at an amicable adjustment of the question before it. He begged to remind the Committee of the actual state of that question— The first proposal was, that the larger towns should have a 101. franchise and Sir Robert Peel wanted that franchise to be extended to all the towns, and that it should be a 101. franchise depending upon the rating. It was contended on the other hand, that rating was not a bona fide criterion of value; and he thought that what had passed at the former debate, and to-night on the subject, had proved this point very satisfactorily. There was more than one difference in rating. In house property, for instance, requiring repairs, insurances, and renewal of materials, these deductions were such that a man who paid 10/. was rated lower than that sum. Now, though there was this difference in rating, he was not prepared to say that he would insist upon taking the clause as It was, and at a 51. franchise. The member Mr Somerset said that a mode of raticg might be adopted which should give an equivalent to the exact value of the house or other tenement. Now, without saying that the measure proposed by the honourable member would obviate all the difficulties of this question, he thought it by no means impossible that they might obtain a rating of 101., by which the objections of the Ministerial side of the House to that proposal might be overcome. Sergeant JACKSON said, that if such were the real intention on the Ministerial side of the House, he was sure an arrangement [night be made.

Mr. O'Connell's amendment was negatived without a division. The remaining clauses were agreed to without any amendment or discussion requiring particular notice. The chairman rose ; the bill was "reported," and ordered to be read a third time on Monday next.

COLONIZATION OF NEW ZEALAND.

Mr. FRANCIS BARING, on Wednesday, moved the second reading of the bill " for the Provisional Government of British Settlements in the Islands of New Zealand." He commenced his speech by a state- tnent of the origin of the project, and the bitter and interested animo- sity by which it had been assailed- " It is now nearly two years since a number of gentlemen, encouraged by the increasing interest which the public took in the matter, and by the knowledge of circumstances which had come under their observation, formed themselves into an association for the purpose of establishing a British colony in New Zealand. They had assembled a large mass of oral and documentary evidence upon the subject. They had sought the evidence of all those whose opinion was worth consulting, either from local knowledge or from connexion in any way with the distant countries into which they were anxious to introduce our religion, our customs, and our laws; and the result they arrived at was, that it was not only expedient as far as the interest of their own country is concerned that their intention should be persisted in, but that they owed it to the natives as a correction of the evils which their communication with us had already en. tailed upon them. They found that these islands, which, according to the prin- ciples followed by otter countries, had been acquired by the British Crown by those forms of taking possession which have ever been allowed to constitute a claim uare 'est other civilized nations, were situate,' in a temperate latitude, with a soil d markable fertility, a climate perfectly suited to the coostitutioas of English emigrants, and productions not only of great value commercially, but of espe- -cidimportance as rendering us independent of other countries for some of the most important of their productions. They found that their position rendered 0„„, of so much importance to our growing settlements in Australia, that the ion of them by any foreign power would endanger the stability of our empire in that part of the world ; and above all, their researches led them to the conviction, that there had arisen, from the settlement on the islands of a lawless and degraded population, an obstacle to any mural improve- ment in the natives, which was every year assuming a mote serious aspect, and which a very short delay might make it impossible to remove. They trusted to this latter circumstance for the obtaining the sanction of the Missionary body; and they confided in the anxiety for the material welfare of the country which Government is supposed to entertain, for the insuring their support to a plan in the success of which they conceived that the stability of our domi- Dion in those seas was involved. They accordingly brought in a bill." Here Mr. Baring briefly stated the principal provisions of the bill, with which the readers of the Spectator are already acquainted. The noes of the Commissioners printed in the bill were those of the Com- mittee of the New Zealand Association ; but Mr. Baring would not insist on these names, but leave the nomination to Ministers and the House in a future stage of the proceedings. He proceeded to unmask the character of the opposition to the bill- ,' To this bill there arose an opposition from a quarter whence we least expected it. It commenced by a series of pamphlets circulated in the dark by the Secretary of the Christian Missionary Society, in which our motives were impugned, and„the existence questioned of all those feelings by which honourable men should be influenced. It was announced that we were recurring to the old pretence of civilization and advancement of religion, while there was upon the face of our plan sufficient indication of a design to repeat at the expense of the natives that oppression, and those excesses of arbitrary power, which at all times, and in all other countries, had marked the progress of the European insider and even degraded the name of civilization' that the sovereignty of the native tribes, which was inherent in them and, if it wanted confirmation, had been assured by a formal recognition by tile British Resident, was to be called is question : that we were an association of jobbers, whose only objecfwas

trading in land,—which all their accounts represented as impossible to be ob. tamed; and that we should be the means of impeding the great work of religion and civilization, which, under the superintendence of the Missionary body, was rapidly and unfailingly going on. We could not but suppose that when our motives were explained, and the object of our bill fully made known, this oppo- sition, founded, as we then supposed it to be, solely upon motives of sympathy for the natives, and alarm on the part of those who had constituted themselves their

natural guardians, would give way before a calm examination of the provisions d the bill. We were conscious of having given every protection in our power

to the tribes—of having fenced and guarded their interest with a minuteness of jealous care which in some measure complicated our bill, and encumbered it with provisions which constituted almost the only difficulty of execution.

But when we found every overture rejected, we only begin to suspect the

existence of some motives beyond those which Mr. Coates had thought cape- client to avow. Sir, those suspicions have been more than confirmed. Upon a close and searching inquiry, we became convinced that it was less from a desire to expose our motives than to conceal their own ; not so much a desire to protect the New Zealander from excess of power on our part, as to maintain the influence which, from motives which appear rather less than spiritual, they bad been engaged in founding, that they had raised an opposition which in its tone and language is little in accordance with those doctrines of justice and charity which they so loudly profess. Sir, some curious facts have conic out in the course of this inquiry. The difficulty of obtaining land has been solved by the Missionaries themselves."

Here Mr. Baring showed, that land to a large extent had been pur- chased by members of the Church Missionary Society, on their own account; and that one of them, Mr. Henry Williams, sold the produce of his estates to the mission of which he was the chairman. A Mr. Fairborn had bought a tract of land thirty miles in length. Messrs. Hemp and Davis had each four or five thousand acres, which they I farmed themselves ; so had Mr. Clark and Mr. Baker, and several other members of the Missionary body. Some of Mr. Fairburn's land was part of the tract sold to an English company in 1825, which the natives had always held sacred, and against the sale of which to Mr. Fairburn some of them protested, in consequence of the previous transfer. It appeared that the Church Missionary Society was by no means so successful in the work of conversion as the Wesleyans. The whole number of communicants belonging to the former was only 180, to the latter 1,000; although the Church Missionaries were five times as numerous as the Wesleyans, and their expenses much greater in pro- portion to their numbers. dr. Baring continued- " Is it to be supposed that the worldly circumstances have no influence over the state of things spiritual ? Do we not know that the churches are more de- serted, that the schools are less earnestly supported? I might make statements upon these subjects with less hazard than Mr. Coates incurred when he collected imputations against the motives of the Association with which I am connected ; and I say so with less hesitation, for I should not want facts or testimony to sup- port them. But, Sir, is there nothing to alter Mr. Coates's views, in the evidence as to the state of the country, which is contained in the despatches lately received from Mr. Busby, the British Resident, and Captain Hobson, who was sent by the Governor of New South Wales on a special mission to report on the spot? His well known connexion with some of the persons employed in the Colonial Office, leads me to suppose it to he difficult that he should not have been cognizant of some of those despatches even before he made his first statement ; but I will allow him, for the sake of his character fur sincerity, the benefit of ignorance on this occasion. But what is the state of society which has grown up under the mild government of the mission? Are nut wars, murders, and every possible excess rife in all parts of the island ? have they succeeded in putting an end to the system of slavery which everywhere exists? have they ventured to attempt it ? are they in in position to coun- teract the gangrenous influence of the society of runaway sailors and escaped convicts, which is daily augmenting in a frightful proportion? can they oppose any barrier to the vicious exampe against which their precepts must struggle in vain, or set any bounds to the profligacy and excesses which are. introducing disease and premature mortality into all the districts with which they are in contact ? Are we not aware, Sir, that all the great religious reformers awe% barbarous nations have established their creeds by connecting its pre- Septa with the material prosperity of those whom they wished to influence; and, in some cases, by making articles of faith many of tl.ose regulations ten. Send necessary by the habits, prejudices, and even the climate of the country to which they are adapted, and which with our purer religion and more rational morality we should leave to be provided for by human institutions? Can they suppose that these poor savages will not connect the evil duiop of these tuppmed adherents of the new religion with the tenets of their religion, and that in many cases the example will not be inure powerful thin tae pee. cept? I am not blind to the sacrifices and exertions of the Missionary body; no one is more ready to acknowledge them. Whatever good is achieved in these islands, they will have been the primary cause of ; and the best proof I can give of good feeling towards them, is my readiness to separate them from the person who has constituted himself their organ here, to attribute to them purer motives and a more disinterested zeal. But the time has come when their exertions can no longer singly avail ; and we had hoped that in the plan we had produced they would have found the best cooperation with their labours, and the surest corrective of the evils against which, unaided, they can- not struggle, in the example of a moral and well-ordered community."

The next branch of Mr. Baring's speech was a detail of the negotia- tion with the Government, and interviews with Lords Melbourne, Howick, and Glenelg, dining the last twelvemonth. From this it ap- peared, that at first Lords Melbourne and Howick had given decided encouragement to the project ; then thwarted it ; and so on, backwards and forwards, till at last Lord Glenelg, finding the Association ready to act upon every reasonable suggestion of the Government, hit upon a condition which he knew could not be complied with—namely, that they should become a joint stock company. Mr. Baring showed that the principle on which it was proposed to colonize New Zealand could not be put into successful operation by a trading company, whose first object must be the purchase and sale of land with a view to profit. It was curious that while Messrs. Coates and Beecham, in their pamphlets, vilified the Association as a joint stock company, the Government op- posed the bill because it did not constitute a joint stock company. What would the Government do of itself?

" Having made this statement of what passed between her Majesty's Govern- ment and the Association, I am led to inquire what remedy or what pallia- tive will this Government of expedients be induced to adopt I can hardly

think that the native Congress, recommended by Mr. Busby, with the adoption of collateral measures, such as the establishment of courts, Ire.— none of which can be admitted without assuming the sovereignty they affect to disclaim—can be in their contemplation. They must know that no num- ber of Europeans are likely to submit to a legislative assembly at Waimate; and that by the time the Missionaries have made the first step in their constitu- tional education, half the population will have disappeared, and the White in- vader will have increased twentyfold. If they mean to plant factories at the bottom of every hay where Europeans resort, I would ask them to estimate the probable consequence of email communities without commerce, without com- bined labour, arts, institutions, and religion, being grouped round twenty 60. lated points in the two islands. Let them look to Swan River, sod the expense —I believe nearly 30,0001.—which that settlement of fifteen hundred persons entails upon the country ; to the chances of collisions with the natives, which weak and ill-ordered communities only serve to invite; to the irregular purchase and disposal of lands ; and to the thousand evils consequent upon their dissemi- nation. It may be objected to us, that the same difficulties will attend our enterprise, and that small communities would spring up which we could not control. Our answer is simple. Such communities would not be established. In the formation of a great European society, we should have all the advantages of high wages, increasing value of property, and, above all, protection to those who joined it. Commerce would centre at the point where supply and con- sumption are most cer tain ; and there would be no inducement to any one to re- sign the certain advantages of a civilized and growing community, to seek a dangerous and precarious livelihood where there could be no security of obtain- ing the commonest necessaries of life. Sir, I appeal to the House against the decision of her Majesty's Ministers, with a full hope that we shall not appeal in vain in favour of a project fraught with advantages so important and so certain to the empire at large."

Sir GEORGE GREY opposed the motion ; but avowed that he would not enter into any argument or detail upon the subject. He only rose to express his regret that Lord Howick was not present,• because he knew that Lord Howick had not given his assent to the principle of the bill accompanied by the details now printed and given to the world, as bad been elsewhere asserted. The bill included every provision it was intended to exclude from the charter which her Majesty's Govern- ment proposed to grant.

Sir ROBERT Notts rejoiced that Ministers bad resolved to oppose the bill. Englishmen had no more right to colonize New Zealand than they had to colonize France; for New Zealand was an inde- pendent state, with which we had diplomatic relations, and whose flag British cruizers were ordered to respect—

The real point at issue was this—whether, by a bill not brought in by bet Majesty's Government, any body of private gentlemen should be permitted, first to purchase and exercise the rights of sovereignty in a foreign country, and then to form laws at their pleasure for the country so acquired. He hoped that, by the concurrent opposition of both sides of the House, that small sec- tion of it which his honourable friend the Member fur Thetford represented would be utterly defeated in this their scheme of transferring to themselves one of the brightest prerogatives of the British Crown.

Mr. HAWES considered the Ministerial opposition to the bill as ill- timed, and inconsistent with good faith— The Secretary for the Colonies had, in Mr. Hawes's hearing, said to a depu- tation which waited upon him, that he " would not throw cold water" upon this project ; and from that expression he had supposed that the noble Seem wry had given it some sanction. He was very much surprised, therefore, at the opposition with which the Government now met the bill which was to carry that project into execution. This company was not one formed for. pur- poses of trade and profit, or that was intended to afford the members of at the slightest pecuniary emolument. How did it happen that so much violent op- position was directed against this bill, while another bill founded on the same principles, and having a similar object, the South Australian Colonization Bill, had been suffered to pass with comparatively little opposition? That act was now working exceedingly well, and fully answering the views of its pro- jectors. No objection had been taken to it by those who opposed the present measure; yet the chief difference between the two bills was, that the number of Commissioners in the former was smaller. He earnestly hoped the House would allow the bill to pass the second reading, and he would willingly consent to any improvement in the details. He was not at all averse from surrounding the exercise of the powers of the Commissioners with every possible precaution against abux. Mr. GLADSTONE defended the Church Missionary Society from the charge of unduly authorizing the acquisition of land in New Zealand—

It had been denied on the part of the Church Missionary Society that any instruction or permission had emanated from them which would justify the im- proper conduct complained of in their officers or dependents. Before this ac- cusation could be credited, it was necessary that the House should be in session of fuller information relative to the proceedings of the Society.

• Lord Howick came in while Sir George Grey was 'peaking.

question appeared to him to he in a small compass. Neither those who op- posed the measure nor those who supported it seemed to him to make out a complete case. Ile thought that more was required to regulate our relations with the people of New Zealand than was thought necessary by the Church Alisidoieu y Society; but, on the other hand, whatever was done should be dune under the strictest and most direct responsibility, by instruments under the immediate control of the Executive and of Parliament, and not by any inter mediate body, removed from their superintendence and control. The himourable Member fur Lambeth had referred to the South Australian Act, as being in its enactments almost identical with the present ; but, though there might be some features of reeenffilauce in the object of the measures and the machinery by which it was to be attained, the case to which the one applied was broadly distinguished from that now before the House, by various essential differences. The South Australian Act did not provide thr the occupation of a count: y not previously under our dominion, and the dieposseseion of settled in- habitants, but for the apportiounient of au extensive territory in a region already occupied by the Crown and by British subjects. With regard to the relations of the new settlers with the native inhabitants, the lands distributed to them weru not occupied by the aborigines to nearly the same extent as those pro. posed to he colonized in New Zealand. There was no evidence that the chiefs of New Zealand had parted with any of their lights of sovereignty ; and it be- Loved the House to be extremely cautious bow they consented to any scheme for dispossessing them by underhand means.

How could the promoters of this scheme, who had taken it from the arena into which it bud been introduced from a dread of the decision which an examination would lead to, expect to carry their project in opposition to the Government ?— He should wish Government to initiate some measure for the regulation of our concern's in New Zealand ; but it was obvious that it was impossible to force the present bill on Govet ument, or to cony it without the .tent and ap- probation of Government. Even if Government were not bemire or neutral, at was impossible that the measure could be carried at present, looking to the period of the session, and considering that the most important measures of do- mestic policy bad been abandoned from the impossibility of discussing them. There was nu one subject thief could engage the attention of the Legislature that demanded more circumspection. There was no exception to the unvary- ing and melancholy story of colonization. Whenever settlers from a people in an advanced stage of civilization came into contact with the aborigines of a barbarous country, the result was always prejudicial to both parties, and most dielecuourahle to the superior. Before establishing a system founded on prin. ciples similar to those advocated by the supporters of this bill—before endea- vourbig to meet the necessities of the case, which be admitted to exist—before instituting a plan of superintendence and control such as was to a certain ex- tent required—they had a most difficult task to perform, a work of labour which would require much examination and inquiry, and which it was totally hopeless to go into at this period of the sessiou.

Mr. WARD said that Mr. Gladstone appeared to rest his opposition to the bill on the insufficiency of the materials for legislation—

Now, it was perfectly well known that Government had the most ample means of collecting information on the subject, and that a large stock of information as to emigration had actually been collected by former Gcveinments, of which the present Administration had shown little anxiety to avail itself. Why should Government allow a fund of 200,000/. to accumulate in Australia, a burden to the colony, and conferring no advantage whatever on the mother country ? The success of the system established by the South Australian Act had already proved the benefits resulting from the prin- ciple of making emigration support itself. That colony was advancing rapidly in the career of success ; and it was incredible that Government, with such an example before their eyes, could remain blind to the advantages which would result from an extension of the system to other colonies.

It was admitted by Mr. Gladstone that Ministers ought to establish something like a system of government in New Zealand : he would go further, and say that, as Christian legislators, they ought nut for a moment to put off interference—

The European visiters of New Zealand had entailed on it all the curses of civilizatiou without its benefits. It was overrun with the very scorn and refuse of our seamen. Two thousand lawless men, from our penal settlements, had planted themselves in the country, constantly fomenting broils and disturbances, and committing outrages which the Govenement of this country could not control. The Church Missionary Society had no power to repress these crimes they might invoke the name of religion and justice, and denounce the guilt uf the offenders; but such efforts were vain. The object of the bill was to give protectiou to all living within the circle over which its provisions extended. When Mr. Gladstone said that we had no right to establish our sovereignty in New Zealand, would he show him what right they had to do so in Australia ? The aborigines of Australia might be an inferior race, but their rights as the inhabitants of un independent territory were the same. Ile would gladly give his aid in providing securities for the protection of the aborigines, and in fen- tiering the control of the Home Government over the authorities proposed more strict and efficient. If the bill was defective in these particulars, it could be amended in Committee; but that could be no reason for rejecting it at this stage of its progress.

From the interviews he bad had with members of the Government, he bad not expected the opposition given to this bill;.land he was much surprised by it—

He had been present, and the noble lord the Secretary at War had been pre- sent, at an interview of the most encouraging nature which a deputation of the promoters of this measure bad with the noble lord at the head of the Govern. meat. On that occasion, the principle on which the colonization of New - Zealand was to be conducted had been explained to the noble lords; who ex- pressed their concurrence. He was requested to arrange with the noble Secre- tary at War the details of a satisfactory plan ; and the suggestions of that nolile lord had been incorporated in the proposed scheme. Must certainly, the prin- ciple on which the negotiation bad been broken off was never mentioned by the noble lord at all; nor had it ever been hinted that the supporters of the plan should become a joint stuck company, having a pecuniary interest in the success of the undertaking. It was not until great sacrifice of time, labour, and money had been made by those who had embarked in the undertaking, that the wish of Government to that effect was notified to those concerned. If they must become proprietors, their interest in that capacity would overbalance all other considerations, and they would become quite unfit to be intrusted with the exercise of those large powers necessary to insure the beneficial operation of the system. The Under Secretary for the Colonies had said that this was a bill to establish a joint stock company, "trading with borrowed capital ;" but if the expression had been employed advisedly, it would seem that Sir George Grey

could not understand the principle on which the society was proceeding. No trading in the case was contemplated ; the object was to institute a system of

emigration defraying its own expenses. The last persona who ought to oppose the bill were the members of the Administration. During the whole of his experience in public life, he had never known so much uncertainty, vacillation, or change of purpose, displayed by any Ministry, as was shown towards those

connected with the undertaking ; whom he himself, relying on the red, Lord HOWICK said, that he had some right to complain of thelnum.. ner in which Mr. Ward bad mentioned the part he had token with reference to this question. He never could have anticipated the he should have been charged with encouraging the promoters of the bill, or he should have brought down with him the letters which be had written on the subject. It was true, that Lord Melbourne had sent to him, as having some knowledge of Colonial matters, to meet lely Baring and other promoters of the bill, in the place of Lord Glenelg He accordingly attended. The gentlemen of the deputation took the oP tunity to state thew views to Lord Melbourne; but he must say, the statetneet. they made was of the most vague and general kind ; and of course no geode man could have thought of giving a decided opinion, on the moment, upon a statement of that kind. What the Members of Government said was, the upon the statement, they did not see any objection to founding a colony is Ne Zealand ; but it was added, that on two points it was indispensable that the Government should receive satisfaction previous to giving their consent to any measure of colonization—first, that the subjects of the Crown should not be inveigled into embarking in any scheme by which their lives and property IheAd be wantonly risked ; and second, that security should be provided for doing full justice to the aborigines. These points, they were told, it was al s htelyeseatisl should be established before even the scheme could be suggested to the Govern. merit. He had, moreover, taken the trouble to point out to the parties eertsia particulars, in regard to which the scheme, on the first design of it, was obviously deficient. His honourable friend the Member for Sheffield had writt.m to hitt, on the subject ; and he (Lord liosvick) in reply, stated what were the views of Government, and what the securities and checks they thought abselutely essential. His honourable friend said, "I am willing to make the bill just what you like." Lord Howick's answer was, " I never undertook to make a bill or to concoct e measure which should be unobjectionable; I only say, that having taken much interest in the affairs of the Colonies, I should be very glad to see a measure of a satisfactory nature." Till within a very short time, he had invariably refused to take any part whatever in the affair. He had only pointed out what were tie original deficiencies of the plan, which most be removed before it could be brought forward with any chance of success. This was the utmost limit of encouragement which he had ever given to the scheme ; and the House would not be surprised at his present opposition to it, when he mentioned that those original defects were still in the bill at this moment.

He had always insisted that Ministers should have a complete con. trol over the Commissioners ; but by the bill, the Commissioners were to be totally irresponsible, and irremoveable too, except by act of Par- liament. He had understood that the promoters of the measure were prepared with large sums of their own, and did not require the sane. non of Parliament to loans for carrying out the purposes of their act; and two or three months ago, when he first heard of the proposed loan, he declared it to be perfectly inadmissible. It bud been said that the South Australian scheme had succeeded ; but he doubted whether the South Australian plan had arrived at that stage of its ex'stence which justified the assertion of its success. Al inisters were trot unwill lig to encourage the colonization of New Zealand—

The Government was willing to consider, and, if possible, support a mime for colonizing New Zealand, which should have incorporated in it the two prin. ciples, first, of security against inveiglement of her Majesty's subjects, Led secondly, security for the observance of justice towards the aborigines. This was the extent of the promise given by Government. But this Gill ansmered neither of these conditions ; it afforded security neither to the subjects of the Crown nor to the natives of New Zealand. He did not wish to enter at length into details. Each clause, if possible, was more monstrous than the oder. Oa these grounds, therefore and looking at the present state of business, he should cordially vote against the second reading.

Mr. HUTT, in allusion to Lord Howick's re fe.'ence to South Aus. tralia, took upon him, of his own knowledge as one of the Commis- sioners, to assert the successful progress of the colony-

" Within less than eighteen months from the present moment, a colony her been planted on the heretofore desert shores of New Holland, which, to say nothing of the benefits it has conferred on some thousand settlers—benefits un-

denied and undeniable—has given large employment to the shipping, comma. cial, and manufacturing interests of Great Britain. These benefits hivebees

attained without any sacrifice of our public interests. No taxes have been paid by the people of England in order to settle or secure the colony of South Australia ; for the name of that colony _cannot be found upon the Estimates laid before the House of Commons. (.. Hear, hear !") And yet the colony is— I challenge contradiction when I say it—in a state of prosperity which sun passes the expectations of its most friendly promoters. The most recent AC. counts represent South Australia as exhibiting every economical evideuce of a

thriving, vigorous, and virtuous community. From all tire neighbouring colonies settlers are arriving to fix themselves in the new province. Shim are almost daily entering port Adelaide—nut from En,eland only, but from India, from Sydney, Launceston, and Hobart Town. All the necessaries of life—a vital question in infant settlements—are nearly as cheap in the city of Adelaide as in any one of the Australian colonies; and nothing can exceed the terms of satisfaction in which labouring emigrants, sent out by the Cominis-doners, speak of their present situation and their future prospects. Yet the noble lord says that South Australia must not be quoted as a proof of the success of a self. supporting colony. It certainly is a colony which has never drawn upon the public purse to secure the happy state of things I have described ; for, while more than forty colonies are dependent on British funds for the maintenenre of their institutions, South Australia alone defrays all its own cost. (" Hew., hear, hear !") Well, the noble lord says the colony is embarrassed with debt. I am glad that the noble lord has named that subject in this House. I know that it has often been pretended, in places where I would not contradict the assertion, that South Australia must soon fall into the hands of the Colonial Office on account of its debt. I am obliged to the noble lord, therefore, fir the opportunity he has afforded me of meeting that unfounded representation ea the floor of this House. Assuredly South Australia is in debt. It was net pos- sible to convey nearly four thousand persons across more than half the globe—a distance of fifteen thousand miles—and to provide for their settlement, govern- ment, and protection, without some expenditure ; and as the colony had no revenue till it was formed, and it was to be a self-supporting colony, it became necessary to anticipate, in some measure, its future resources. A debt of 60,0001. was incurred ; and the experience of every day has demonstrated the soundness of that policy which recommended such a procedure. But the whole annual expenses of the colony, including the interest of the debt alluded to, scarcely exceeds 15,0001.: to meet which,- there is the colonial revemse, estimated at 5,0001., and the proceeds arising from the sale of land, w‘hirb htheearcIlse of this year only will probably amount to 50,000/." e llear4 Sir GEORGE GRET—" I be pardon : the m octet's of tl e lard sale are up' plieable only to purposes of emigration." Government and their professions of good.will, had b,en a party to deludi aI Mr. RUTT—" The Uuder Secretary for the Colonies means to tell the House, that the funds derived from the bale of lauds in the colony are exclusively the "may of the emigration depattment. Well, then, the Under Secretary for she Colonies has either not read, or does not understand, the pt ovisiona of the bill under which South Australia is founded—a colony to which he has never appeared to me a fair or candid opponent. For the South Australian Act ex- weedy provides, that the money derived from the sale of lands shall be a ;ninny for the money raised by loan. ( To this Lord 'Ionia signified his assent.) Well, then; to such an expenditure of 15,0001. per annum for the exigencies of the colony, you have obviously not only ample funds, but probably 40,000/. in addition to expend on purposes of emigration, and that in the wend year of the colony's existence. Will the noble lord, or the Under Sec- retary for the Colonies,point out to me any other dependency of the British Crown in a similar situation ? (" Mar, hear !" I say, then, that my honourable friend referred with ample reason to the experience of South Australia in favour of founding a Similar colony in New Zealand. The honourable Member for Newark, has said 1,1.-ch about the evils which would accrue to the aboriginal inhabitants of New Zealand from the formation of such a colony among them. This subject too has formed a favourite theme for the clamour of the Missionaries. Let me refer you once more to South Australia : while there is no other instance in the history of the world, of a European people sitting down among Coloured tribes without bloodshed, vio- lence, and injustice, South Australia alone has treated the aborigines with uni- form kindness and humanity. And what is the consequence ? While every other colony stands in need of military force to protect it from hostile aggres- sion, there is not a single soldier in the colony of South Australia ! The colonists are entirely without any such defence ; and what is more extraordi- nary, it would be quite useless if they had it. For they have found in the prac- tice of moderation, justice, and benevolence, a security from the natives that Blithe bayonets of your military could never have given them." ( Cheers.)

Sir WALTER JAMES opposed the bill; and read something to show that we had acknowledged the independence of the New Zealand flag !

Mr. VILLIERS, in a brief, logical, and pithy speech, of which not an outline appears in the daily newspapers, supported the second reading.

Mr. GOULBURN objected to the extraordinary powers which the bill would confer On the Commissioners— There was, in the first instance, an unlimited power of taxation ; then there vas to be the right of importing timber duty-free,—which he much wondered at, when he recollected that many of those who supported this very measure were formerly vehement in condemning the policy which allowed of a reduced duty upon an inferior timber finin Canada, to the partial exclusion of a better article of the kind front the North of Europe; and lastly, so jealous were the projectors of this scheme of the liberties of the people, that they had a clause in their bill by which they empowered themselves to make and establish such articles of war as they might think proper, and to set up martial law for the protection of the Gevernitient whenever they might think necessary. (Lurid cries of " !fear ! ") In his opinion, these were not matters of detail, but of principle; and be should therefore certainly oppose the second reading of the bill which contained them.

Mr. P. HOWARD supported the bill. Lord SANDON opposed it. Mr. PF.ASE recanted his former support, on the ground that those ex- cellent men the Missionaries objected to the interference. After a brief reply from Mr. BARING, the House divided—

For the second readiug 82

Against it 92

SEIZURE OF Tan VIXEN.

The House was occupied for several hours on Thursday with a dis- cussion respecting the seizure of the Vixen by the Russians. Sir STRATFORD CANNING moved--

"That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the fallowing allega- tions contained in the petition of Mr. George !sell others,—name) •, that

the petitioners have suffered seriously in their interests and characters through the seizure of their vessel, the Vixen, and her cargo, by a Russian titan of war in the Bay of Soujouk-Kale; that the intention of the petitioner, George Bell, to mend a vessel to the coast of Circassia for the purpose of trading independently with the population of that coast, was previously simile known to her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and lord his approval and sanction; and that the final arrangements for the vessel's voyage were, before she sailed from Constantinople, communicated to and expressly sanctioned by her Majesty's Representative at the Sublime Porte."

The speakers in support of the motion were Sir STRATFORD CAN- NING, Lord STANLEY, and Sir ROUST PEEL; and the arguments and statements they used were chiefly these. Mr. Bell, being desirous of trading to Circassia, and being aware that the Russian Government bad notified a blockade of the Circassian coast, applied to the Foreign Office to ascertain whether the blockade was recognized by this country. He received a reply through Mr. Strangways, to the effect that all no- tifications of blovkades recognized by the British Government were published in the Gazette ; and to the Gazette Mr. Strangways referred Mr. Bell for information. As there wins no notice of the blockade in the Gazette, Mr. Bell concluded that it was not recognized by the Government. In reply to another inquiry from Mr. Bell, a similar answer was returned. Mr. Bell sent his vessel to the Black Sea ; but before it finally proceeded to the Circassian coast, Mr. James Bell, who was supercargo, had communications with Lord Ponsonby, Am- bassador at Constantinople, and Mr. Urquhart, Secretary of the Em- bassy, who encouraged him to proceed on his voyage. Extracts were read from a correspondence of Mr. Urquhart with the Foreign Office, published in the Times of Wednesday, confirmatory of the state- ment that the voyage of the Vixen was countenanced by the Foreign Office. 'rhe publication of this correspondence was justifiable, because Lord Palmerston had misrepresented its character. The appointment of Mr. Urquhart to the place of Secretary was itself a symptom of the wish of Government to thwart the policy of Russia, for that gentle. man's hostility to Russia was notorious. The Vixen was seized and confiscated, and no redress obtained or asked for by Lord Palmerston ; who indirectly at home, and directly by his agents, for whose proceed. ings he was responsible, had encouraged Mr. Bell to prosecute his voyage. It was contended that Lord Palmerston's conduct in this matter indicated neglect of the commercial interests of the country, and a culpable indifference to the progress of Russian power, espe- cially as it was a matter of great doubt whether Russia was in actual possession of Soudjouk Kale at the time of the seizure of the Vixen.

Dr. LESHINGTON, Lord PALMERSTON, and Lord JOHN RUSSELL opposed the motion. They alleged, that Mr. Bell was perfectly aware of the risk he Ian with iris vesse' of 15.1 tons bure!en laden A iu. .a .

for tl at was the amount of 'h. loss iuccned. No mrs ct reply was given to his inquiries, l'ecause It would have been manifestly inexpe- dient to decide so importarit a question on so small an interest. lied tile reply been to the effect that the Russian blockade was illegal, and that Mr. Bell might rely on the protection of the British Governineat, then the consequence might have been an open rupture with Russia, which it was certainly not right to hazard if, on the contrary, the legality of the Russian blockade bad been admitted, then the claim of Russia to a large tract of territory would have been acknowledged; which territory she was not known actually to hold, and which it was desirable to keep out of her hands. As to the personal responsibility of the Foreign Secretary for all that his subordinates at home or abroad might say or do, Lord Palmerston utterly denied that it existed. Mr. Bell, however, had been warned by Lord Ponsonby of the risk he rare. Mr. Urquhart's conduct was disapproved of, and be had been recalled ; and he was highly blameable in publishing the letter in the Times ; neither was it becoming in Sir Stratford Canning to make use of the information it supplied. Mr. Bell's cargo was salt, which he knew to be a forbidden tinkle of import ; so that he endeavoured to intro- duce a contraband article into a blockaded port. The claim of Russia to the territory rest( d on very fair grounds; and could not be set aside, though it could not be acknowledged, in the summary way Mr. bell expected. The motion WAS impolitic : if Mr. Bell and his supporters were right, there Was it case for war against Russia—if Russia was in the right, then Mr. Bell must suffer the consequences of his own act.

There was a good deal of debate respecting the right of Russia to the portion of the Circassian roast which she blockaded ; and old treaties between Russia and Turkey were referred to for the purpose of settling the question; but it appears to remain in stabs quo.

The !louse divided—

For Sir Stratford Canning's motion lit Against it 1100

11iuisterial majoilte It;

TOE CIVIL WAR IN SPAIN.

On Tuesday, the Marquis of LoNnoNneeny call( d the atten'hon of the House of Lends to the Spanish policy of Ministers, the conduct of the civil war in Spain, and the treatment of the British .Ano.nliary Legion. in a speech which occupied nearly three insides in the delivery, Lord Londonelte ry laboured to prove that the imminence of England in the Spanish quarrel was originally impolitic ; that it hail been pro- ductive of the worst consequences even to the Queen's cause, which the Ministers espoused; and that it had been conducted in a way to tarnish the lustre of the British arms, and bring disgrace upon the a- dore.; character. Ile read manly (imitations from speeches and hooks, to prove that the treatment of the Legion by the Sponish Government had been infamous ; and he maintained that it was in the pow.nr of the British :Ministry to obtain payment of the Legion in full, as he discre- dited the statements which represented tine Spanish treasury as canpty. In all this mass of words, we find nu fact or ;argument, possessing any interest, which has out been repeatedly advanced in previous deletres

6.1.1 . .. . ;eh naiii vs. to.

Santa' the cost of the Legion and the Marines to this country, d 11:a

number of the latter now e:ig:Iged the coast of Spain.

Lord Meannototsa: had no objeesiun to prod nee most of th,• h roses moved for by L ird Londonderry, but would net give a.iy state.nent of the Alarines now employed in British veesels off the coast of Biecay. Neither could he proilinee returns of the arrears of pay due to the Legion, as they did not refer to any 4:fig:igen:ea of the .1 fish Government. lint ridiculed the feeble and impotent motioa with which Lord Londonderry had concluded a speech so stronely incul- patory of Ministers. lie would not follow him into tine details of his attack, especially those which were finunded on letters and com- plaints of officers employed in the British Legion. lie felt seration for Many of those persons ; but he could not help reeollect- ing, that uffh.ers who served in Spain finder the Duke of Wyllie:oar!) at the commencement of tine Peninsular war were in the habit of sending home complaints of harsh treatment similar to those preferred by than officers who served under General Meets. The contest ire which this country had interfered was not merely one which ..-2,peered the succession to tine throne of Spain— With respect to the general principles of the war, he could only say, that the policy he had pursond was the policy he conceived best calculated to wore time independence of Spain, the continuance Of peace, and the saf.ty of Great Britain. lie would not go into the circumstances in which the war origi• nate:I—the will of Ferdinand, and the reeognition of the Haven Regent, as up to that event, he believed, all were agreed, and none condemned the conduct of Government. Then came the Quadruple Treaty, followed by Don t....olue leaving Portugal, by his return from England, and the commencement of the war in the Basque Provinces. The great object of Englaud was to put an end to the war, although at the time the opinions of Europe were very various is tc the propriety of inter fern:nee. But the cause which then divided the Europeae mind was not the mere fact of is dialoged succession—it was the struggle of the two great principles of constitutional and arbitrary government ; and lie dui not think that their permanent agitation tended much to the preservation of general harmony. At the same time, he felt himself bound to say, that, as far as his knowledge of the powers of Europe went, hie conviction went that all shared in a desire for the preservation of peace, and all were willing to make every meanie° consistent with their respective national interests to tecure tba:. important object. Some thought, however, that interference in the affairs of Spain had tended much to frustrate that object. He was not of that opinion, as Ile felt that England was deeply interested in the welfare of Spain, and that is was of the greatest possible importauce to her to procure as immediate termitia. tion of hostilities in that country. For that purpose, he had adopted measure: which he did not now pretend to sty were not soinetvliat liable to objection—or that they had tuned out as successful as might naturally have been anticipates!.

Lord LYNDHURST referred to the grandiloquent prophecies of Lord Palmerston and other Ministers— The Foreign Secretary was so confident of the success of General Evans in putting down what lie termed the trunk of Don Carlos, that he sent an order to her Majesty's ships stationed on the coast of Spain to refuse him admission should he present himself as a fugitive. Let them compare the state of the fortunes of Don Carlos at the time of the predictions which had been referred tar with the *tate of those forune, nor. The British Auxiliary Legion leaf altogether disappeared ; and with the exception of the city of Valentia, the en- tire of the province in which it was situate was in the hands of Don Carlos. The province of Upper Arragon was in his hands likewise, as was also the whole of Catalonia. As the noble lord at the head of the administration of the Foreign Affairs of this country had staked his reputation upon the sagacity of his views with respect to Spain, and the justness of his predictions regarding what would happen in that country, be would wish that Lord Melbourne would take the trouble to compare that state of things which was the basis of that noble lard's predictions with the state of things which prevailed now. For his own part, he was one of those who had always condemned interference in the domestic quarrels of Spain, and intervention in the intestine struggle which was unhappily going on in that country. He thought such intervention unwise and uncalled for, and not an intervention which could have been justified in reference to any sound views of the interests of Great Britain. He thought such intervention to be most unwise in any ease ; but he thought such intervention still more un- wise and still more unjustifiable and unwarranted on the part of those whom be recollected to have been, in the earlier period of his life, loud in their de- elarnations and condemnation of interference in the domestic affairs of other nations. But, if such an intervention took place at all, he would ask their Lordships whether it ought not to be carried on in a manner and in a form be sousing the character, the dignity, and the ancient renown of this country ? One of the justifications of this intervention was, that we interfered for the parpose of aiding in the endeavour to establish the principles of liberty in Spain. Our interference had been over and over again justified on these grounds. But is what way had Lord Melbourne and his colleagues shown their attachment to the principles of liberty in Spain ? Why, they had done so by sending out a body of troops to attack people as attached to their liberty as we were our- selves—people who were brave, hardy, and independent—who possessed institu- Coos to which they were as much attached as we were to our own—institutions which they valued as free institutions, and to which they were attached by psiociple, by habit, and by feeling. He thought this intervention most unwar- namable. Of all despotisms, that was the worst and most tyrannical which at- tempted to force upon a people institutions to which they were averse, and for which they were unfitted. It was always the best course, and one most conso- nant with wisdom and sound policy, not to attempt to frame and discipline men to institutions, but to frame and accommodate the institutions to the men for whom they were intended.

He contended that the military interference of this country had been badly conducted. The troops sent to Spain ought to have been highly disciplined, considering the character of the warfare in which they were about to engage ; and their commander should have been a person of seat experience.

The Earl of CARNARVON also condemned the Spanish policy of Ministers, and expressed his extreme regret that the civil war in Spain bad been conducted with so notch barbarity.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that Lord Lyndhurst had spoken as if some "dire catastrophe " had afflicted the Government of the Queen of Spain—

Here Lord LYNDHURST interrupted Lord Lansdowne, and a long altercation ensued.

Lard LY NDII URST —" I used the one word, and not the other, hut not in the sense the noble Marquis assumes." The Marquis of LA NSDOW NE—" All I can say, my Lords, is, that my at- tention was called particularly to the wind • catastrophe.' " Lord LYND111./ HST.—" Well, but what becomes of the word r dire?" The blaiquis of La testtow se—" I did not certainly, hear the noble and darned lord use the word ' dire,' though I did distinctly the word 'catas- trophe.' " Lord LYN DIIURST-.-" I used the word ' catastrophe,' toy Lords, at the *abet of any speech, as denoting termination, in the classical sense of that word."

The Marquis of LA risDowxy (with warmth)—" My Lords, I accept the saplanation of the noble and learned lord ; and ask your Lordships, whether the lamination that has taken place can be regarded as a dire catastrophe? " Lord LYNIMURST—" I say, my Lords, I did nut use the word catastrophe in the sense the noble Marquis seems to suppose. I did not use the word dire at all ; and I employed the word catastrophe to indicate a mere termination or winding-up, as the catastrophe of a drama, for instance." The Marquis of LA NSDOW NE (with great vehemence both of voice and m- ilk illation, and amidst cries of " Older, older !")—" My 1.i.rds, I thought the amble and learned lord had risen to order, and not to interrupt ; and I gave him the opportunity of doing 90,, but I now tell him that I will not give way to him again." Lord LY N Dll RST—" My Lords, I thought the noble Marquis had put a question to me, and wished that I should answer it." The Marquis of LA NSDOW NE. (apparently much excited, and with increased vehemence)—" My Lords, I appeal to you whether the noble and learned lord is not out of order? " (Cries of Order, order !") Lord LYNDHURST (interrupting)—" My Lords, I must deny that I have done any thing more than is common in your Lordships' House." (Renewed trim of " Ordef, order !") The Marquis of La NSDOW NE Yes, common, but common only by per. mission. The noble and learned lord has thought fit to interrupt me in my speech, although he would have had an opportunity of explaining any thing he wished when I had done; and I will not admit that either the noble and learned lord, or any other member of your Lordships' House, has any with right as that of interrupting me when I am addressing your Lordships. Ily Lords, I will not submit to be so interrupted by the noble and learned brd ; for, however learned he may be, I know of no rule of your Lordships' House which enables either the noble and learned lord, or any other of your Lordships, to interrupt against his will a person who is in the act of speaking, and the more especially as the noble and learned lord will have an opportunity alt addressing to your Lordships any observations lie may have to make on what bus fallen from me when I have concluded what I have got to say. When I sat down, I did so fur the purpose of attoillig the noble and learned lord an opportunity of speaking to order ; but lie did not do so, and I now repeat that I will not give way to him again." Lord N DH t: sr —" The noble Marquis may just do as lie thinks proper." The Marquis of Laissuow NE (with increased vehemence)—" The noble and Stormed lord has thought fit to interrupt me again ; I —" Lord LYNDIIUAST..—" What 1 rose for was to say, that I never uttered the word 'dire.' Had I nut a right, my Lords, to take care that the noble Marquis did not misrepresent ohat I had said ? " The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (still apparently under the influence of strong kelings)—.. I will not, my Lords, submit to be thus interrupted by the noble and learned lord. I sat down, my lords, thinking the noble and learned lord wished to speak to order. The noble and learned lord did not avail himself of the op- portunity I afforded to him, but, on the contrary, when 1 got up again the noble and learned lord interrupted me. I contend, any Lords, that according to the onager of sour Lordships' House, the noble and learned lord was not justified in interrupting me, unless for the purpose of speaking to order."

This " passage of arms" being. over, Lord Lansdowne entered into

a general defence of the Spanish policy of Ministers, and maintainZ that the greatest objects bad been effected by the smallest means. 'MI Lord Lyndhurst called a " miserable and peddling policy :" doubtless Lord Lyndhurst would have acted on a contrary system, and effected the smallest objects by the greatest possible expenditure.

The Duke of WELLINGTON felt that be should be expected to state his opinion on the question under discussion. He believed that it was in support of certain principles of government that Ministers had in. terfered—not to preserve the succession to the throne of Spain in o legal and legitimate line. He contended that this country bad no right to interfere to regulate the succession to the throne of Spain, or to support any set of political opinions. Their interference had not at all assisted the Queen of Spain— When Don Carlos went to Spain, in the summer of 1834, there were not three battalions in arms in that country in his favour. That he positively stated as a fact. Bat, on the contrary, in the space of forty leagues there were forty fortified posts in possession of the Queen's troops. That was a positive fact ; and he said that in the year 1835, when the armistice was negotiated, ohm the exchange of prisoners had been negotiated by Lord Eliot, Don Carlos was in a state superior to the Queen's forces, who were obliged to take up a position on the right of the Ebro. That was to say, that between the interval of time he had mentioned—and this was a positive fact upon which the House might rely, and to which he pledged his reputation—that between the summer of 1834 and the period at which the exchange of prisoners was agreed upon is 1833, th it was in the course of a very few months, the superiority had been gained by Don Carlos in that part of the country ; and he had taken up such position that the Queen's troops had felt themselves compelled to abandon all the fortified posts, and, he must add, had very wisely abandoned them, because they found they could riot march to their relief through the country. Thaw** a positive fact, and it was a fact not to be forgotten, with respect to the present contest in Spain.

The expedition of the Legion had been an utter failure— The Legion had cost the Spanish Government an enormous sum of money. Great expectations hail been raised respecting it, and nut one of them had been fulfilled. When the Legion went to Spain, the Queen of Spain's army was ia all the provinces with the exception of 13iscay and Navarre. Her Government was established in all parts of Spain excepting these places. Excepting them, all other places might be said to be in a state of tranquillity. Could not, then, the Queen of Spain carry on war unless she got ten thousand Isle.of-Dogs men and also a legion front France? If the Spanish Government had asked for ofli. cers or for alms, or for money, or for artillery, he should not have been sur- prised, as he knew well the manner in which the Spanish arsenals were sup. plied. But asking for ten thousand men from England to destroy Duo Carlos, was not to be seriously thought of. The object was DOE to bring ten thousand or fifteen thousand, or twenty thousand into action, but to bring the red coats, and the blue coats, the French and the English troops, into the contest. For this purpose vulunteers were procured. It was merely to produce an effect. The consequence was, however, that the influence which this country ought to have was lost. That influence could be exercised only by attending to the principles of strict neutrality and justice. It was by strict attention to treaties, and by adhering faithfully to them, that they could hope to exercise an influence over two contending parties.

The Earl of MINTO contended, that the Duke of Wellington's advice could not be followed without a breach of the Quadruple Treaty. As for the withdrawal of the naval force from the coast of Spain, it could not be done without a great sacrifice of British bite. rests.

Lord RIPON said, that the country was in such a piebald situation, that it was impossible to say whether it was at war or not.

Lord Londonderry's motion, with some alteration by Lord MEL- BOVIME, was agreed to.

MISCELLANEOUS.

TILE IRISH POOR BILL was recommitted in the Lords on Thurs. day, and several minor amendments carried. The Committee pro. ceeded as far as the 03d clause, when the House resumed.

CANADA. Lord GOSIORD presented a petition from the Bishop, Vicars-General, and Catholic clergy in the district of Quebec, praying that the entire country might not suffer fur the misconduct of a small portion of it. Lord Gosford said he could bear testimony to the truth of the statement that only a small portion of the country was tainted with disloyalty. '1' lie petitioners stated their abhorrence of the union of the two provinces ; and Lord Gosford also agreed with them as to the impoliey of such a measure.

Lord BROUGHAM rejoiced at having Lord Gosford'a testimony to the loyalty of the great body of the Canadians— It only confirnted his recorded opinion; he hoped that he should have the support of the noble earl if he should call upon their Lordships to avail them- selves of a clause in the Canada Bill enabling the Legislature to repeal the bill in the present session, and that the "dictatorial minion," which had been sent out to Canada when the inhabitants appeared to be so loyal, should be repealed." (Lau9hter.) SCOTCH BURGHS. Mr. Fox AI RULE, on Monday, moved the second reading of the Parliamentary Burgh Bill. The motion was opposed by Sir GEORGE CLERK, Mr. COLQUHOUN, and Sir WILLIAM RAE; chiefly on the ground that it would reduce the Municipal franchise from 101. to 3/., which alteration would lead to the reduction of the Parliamentary franchise. Lord Advocate MuRRAY denied that such was the intention of the bill ; and Mr. ROBERT STEUART stated that the real object of the measure was to enable corporations to impose a borough rate for municipal purposes— There was a number of burghs in Scotland in which corporations existed where magistrates were put to great expense, but had not the means of de- flaying it. He would ask the House, what inducement was held out to the gentry of Scotland, who load assumed the situation of magistrates or coon:A- lma, if they were not allowed to reimburse themselves in the expenses they were put to, iu order to carry into execution the intentions of the Legislature. In the present position of affairs in Scotland, it was impossible to find, with. a 101. franchise, fit and proper persons to fill the corporate offices. In the dis- trict of burghs which he had the honour to represent, it had been found actually necessary to abolish the burgess-rates, in order to obtain fit and proper persons to till the offices ; and he would ask the Ilouse whether, in that state of things, it was not fit, therefore, to reduce the franchise in the way proposed?

The bill was read a second time, by a majority of 88 to 59; and or- dered to be committed on Monday next.

TILE PARTY PROCESSIONS BILL, which has for its object the effec- tual suppression of party processions in Ireland, was read a second tune.

by a vote of 74 to 10 ; notwithstanding the strenuous opposition of Sir ROBERT BATESON and Colonel SIBTHORPE. THE BENEFICES PLURALITY BILL was read a third time, on the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL. Some clauses were added to the bill by way of "riders," and it was passed. IRISH TITHES. Lord JOHN RUSSELL postponed the second reading of the Irish Tithe Bill till Friday ; and Mr. WARD gave notice, that upon the motion for going into Committee, he should move the follow- ing resolutions-

" That whereas, on the 3d of April 1835, this House agreed to the follow- ing resolution : That this House do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, in order to consider the present state of the Church Establishment in Ireland, with the view of applying any surplus of the rc...?nues not required for the spiritual care of its members to the general education of all classes of the people, without distinction of religious persuasion.' " find whereas, on the 7th of April 1835, this House agreed to a second resolution, stating, " That it is the opinion of this House that no measure upon the subject of tithes in Ireland can lead to a satisfactory and final adjustment, which does not embody the principle contained in the foregoing resolution.' " And whereas, on the 21st of July 1835, on going into Committee upon the Irish Tithes Bill, the House refused to assent to an instruction to the Com- mittee, the object of which was to divide the bill into two bills,' because in- consistent with the preceding resolutions : " And whereas, on the 4th of June 1836, the House rejected an amendment proposed upon the second reading of the Irish Tithes Bill of that session, to the effect' That leave be given to bring in a bill for the conversion of tithe compo- sition into rent-charges, and for the redemption thereof, and for the better dis- tribution of ecclesiastical revenues in Ireland :' " And whereas, on the 17th of May last, in this present Parliament of 1833, this House refused to rescind the resolutions of 1833, which, consequently, re- main upon its journals- " It be an instruction to the Committee to make provision, in the present bill, for giving effect to these resolutions, by proceeding to a better distribution of ecclesiastical property in Ireland, and by appropriating the'surplus revenues of the present Church Establishment, not required for the spit itual care of its members, to the moral and religious education of all classes of the people, with. out distinction of religious persuasion."

CONTROVERTED ELECTIONS BILL. Sir ROBERT PEEL, On Wednes. day, after some conversation with Lord JOHN RUSSELL, fixed Wed- nesday the 4th of July for the discussion of this bill ; and Lord MAHON gave notice, that he should on that day propose the establish- ment of a tribunal, not consisting of Members of Parliament, for the trial of election petitions.

THE SCOTCH SMALL LEBTS BILL was recommitted, on the motion of Lord Advocate MURRAY, by the casting-vote of the Speaker ; the numbers on a division being 1 11 and Ill. The Lord Advocate moved to reduce the jurisdiction of the Court from 1001. scots to 51. sterling; for the motion 110, against it 119. The other clauses were agreed to, and the bill was " reported ;" and ordered to a third reading on the 1 lth of July.

OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATH. On the motion of Mr. PLUMPTRE, the House "considered" the report on his Lord's Day Bill. But after a long discussion, even the first clause was not passed, in consequence of the repeated divisions on amendments and motions to adjourn, which were negatived by small majorities. At length Mr. PLUMPTRE consented, at half-past two in the morning, that the chairman should " report progress." The most strenuous opponents of the bill were Mr. WARD, Mr. LEADER, Mr. JOHN JERVIS, Mr. GROTE, Sir RO- BERT ROLFE, Mr. HAWES, Mr. VERNON SMITH, Sir EDWARD SUG- DEN, and Mr. VILLIERS. It was supported by Sir RoasaT

Mr. KEMBLE, Mr. GOULBURN, and Lord SANDON.

THE CORONATION. The SPEAKER informed the House, that the Queen had ordered a gallery to be prepared in Westminster Abbey for the accommodation of Members at the Coronation ; and on the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, a Select Committee was appointed,

"To confer with her Majesty's Surveyor-General as to the manner in which the Members of the House could be best accommodated at the Coronation, and as to the going to and returning from the Abbey of Westminster, and also as to what order should be observed therein."

On Thursday, Mr. SPRING RICE presented the report of the Com- mittee appointed to confer with the Surveyor- General. It stated that

The Committee had viewed the gallery and seats erected for the accommoda- tion of this House in Westminster Abbey, and had found them very convenient ; and that they had been assured by Sir Benjamin Stephenson, one of the Com- missioners of Woods and Works, that the same were perfectly strong and safe, and capable of receiving 613 persons. The Committee had resolved- " That it will be expedient that the House should assemble at eight of the clock in the morning of the day of her Majesty's coronation ; and that the Members should attend in Court dresses, out of mourning, and that they eater by the great gate of Westminster Hall. "That, to secure free passage for the carriages of the Members, Mr. Speaker be requested to issue tickets to such Members as shall apply fur the same.

" That the names of the counties of the United Kingdom be put into a glass ; and that after Mr. Speaker shall have left the chair, the same be drawn by the Clerk ; and that no Member do presume to go out of the House until the county for which he serves shall have been called ; and that, for the more regular proceedings of the Members, Mr. Speaker be requested to stay, after he shall have left the chair, till all the Members shall have proceeded in the order according to which their counties have been called. " That no Member of this House do remain in or do cross or pass through any part of the passages leading from the door of the lobby of the House to the gallery prepared for the Members in Westminster Abbey ; and that the Ser. geant.at.arins do keep the said passages clear of Members. " That the Sergeant-at-arms do precede the Members, and conduct them to their seats in the Abbey. " That when the Members go to the Abbey, they proceed two a-breast, without crowding, through the Members' waiting-rooms, across St. Margaret's Street, to the Abbey-door in Poet's Corner, under a covered way, and so to the gallery prepared for their accommodation over the altar in the Abbey ; and that they return by the same way to the House. "That after nine of the clock in the morning, the passage to the Abbey by Poet's Corner be kept clear for the exclusive use of the Members of the Ifouse Commons, until they shall have passed to their seats ; and again, after the solemnity shall have been concluded, until they shall have returned to the House."