Debates anb Vroceebings in iparlfament.

STATE OF IRELAND.

The adjourned debate in the House of Commons, on Mr. Smith O'Brien's motion for inquiry into the state of Ireland, was resumed on Monday, by Captain BERNAL, with reiteration of various arguments for the proposition ; urging the employment of the poor on public works and railways, the abolition of the Lord-Lieutenancy, and provision for the Roman Catholic clergy. When Charles the First asked the best way to pat down rebellion, he was answered—" Remove the causes."

Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS moved an amendment— He reprobated the alliance of the arch-agitator, Mr. O'Connell, with Re- peelers in America; and read extracts of letters sent from America to the Re- peal Association, expressing bitter hostility to England. As a set-off for the credit of America, he read an extract of a letter by Dr. Tyng, an eminent American Protestant Dissenter, who visited England last year, and who said- " England's mostprosperous days have been in the reigns of her Protestant Queens, in two of which the land has been delivered from the yoke and ' the detestable enormities of the Bishop of Rome ' ; and, I cannot but think that if Victoria's life shall be preserved, it will be as an instrument of peculiar blessings to her nation. • • • As an American citizen, I feel myself in a condition to accord without fear the praise of its manifest excellences to the British constitution and system of society ; having no temptation to join in that coarse and Radical cry which can imagine no liberty but in the overturn of order, and no demonstration of the love of liberty but in the unnecessary abuse of constituted authorities and dignities, and an affected contempt of superior stations and the rights which belong to them." Sr Howard read statistical details to show that Ireland was benefited by the Union, in the in- crease of its trade, the increase of its public works, the number of its people employed in England, (the labourers number 40,000,) and in the general pro- gress of society. He concluded by moving, as a check to agitation, the follow- ing resolution—" That this House, ever ready to take into consideration any real practical grievances of which any portion of the people of this country may complain and represent in an orderly and constitutional manner, but depre- cating and condemning the agitation and excitement which now prevail in Ire- land to an extent tending to disturb the public tranquillity, to endanger the lives and property of her Majesty's subjects, and to set all government at defiance, deem it their bounden duty to postpone all further discussion on the question now before the House, until all agitation shall have ceased and perfect order be restored : that this House resolves to support her Majesty's Govern- ment in whatever measures may be necessary to effect this by a prompt and vigorous execution of the existing laws, and moreover, to concur in arming her Majesty's Government with such extraordinary powers as may be efficient to put a stop at once to proceedings and movements which can no longer be per- mitted with a due regard to the peace of Ireland, to the integrity of the state, and to the safety, honour, and welfare of the country, and the dignity of the Crown." [Not finding a seconder, this motion fell to the ground.] Mr. VILLizas STUART, supporting the motion, pressed for redress of Irish grievances, especially of those evils which arose from laws for- merly passed to prevent Roman Catholics from holding land, and from the anomalous condition and disproportionate extent of the Irish Church.

Captain lions spoke in favour of the motion—

He had supported the Arms Bill ; a legacy from the Irish Parliament, and maintained by successive Administrations. But the noble Lord the Member for London had formerly accompanied it by a sop for Cerberus—the Appro- priation-clause; and he believed that Lord John Russell would have gone much further, but that in all legislation with regard to Ireland Government was tied by the leg by the bigotry of the Presbyterian Church in Scotland and by the bigotry of the Protestant Church in England. (" Hear ! " laughter, and cries of Oh!" from the Ministerial benches.) He, however, did much by the Appropriation-clause; for by it he pacified the great Agitator for a time, and the great Agitator managed to pacify the country, and, thank God, they bad some years of tranquillity. (Cheers frosts the Opposition.) It should not be lost sight of that this was the Church of the minority, and that more would have been done but for the bigotry of the Presbyterian Church iu Scotland and the Protestant Church in England, and, he must also admit it, but for the bigotry of nearly all the supporters of the Government. (Great laughter.) The last Government did what it could for Ireland, and it did not do more be- cause its hands were tied in the way which he had just mentioned ; and he believed also that the present Government would do even more than the last if its hands were not tied up. (Cheers and laughter.) He was fully aware, if the members of the Government gave expression to such opinions as he bad now uttered, that they might regard their places as not being worth twenty- four hours' purchase; and he feared that the present evil state of things must exist as long as opinion continued as it was in England and Scotland. The very granting of Catholic Emancipation was an acknowledgment of the whole debt, of which that was only an instalment. He knew that the war-cry of many gentlemen near bim was "No Popery" and "Protestant Ascendancy." Now what had been the effect of this so-called Protestant ascendancy in Ire- land ? In 1800, the proportion of Protestants to Catholics in that country was as one to three: at the present time they were one to six and a half. Protestant ascendancy, therefore, was a failure for its professed objects. He called upon the House to obey the command "Do unto others as ye would they should do unto you." (Loud cheers.) " I beg the House well to con- sider, that that which, if now conceded, would be accepted as a boon, may, and will, no doubt, at some future period be forced from them. (Cheers.) The only safe mode that the House can proceed on in legislating for Ireland, is to make the people understand that their welfare and your welfare are identical, and that your God is their God. This is the only rule that can be safely acted upon in the command of a ship—this is the only regulation that could be en- forced in the command of a regiment—the only sound and safe principle to act upon in the government of a nation." (Loud cheers.)

Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE followed up previous attacks on Ministers and their policy.

Mr. T. B. C. &arm defended them ; with retorts on the late Minis- ters of appointing partisans to the Bench, and controversial arguments against the reduction of the Established Church and " fixity of tenure."

Viscount Bowies insisted that the House had a right to an exposi- tion of the Ministerial views as to the causes of existing evils, together with a statement of some well-considered line of policy for their cor- rection— For such an exposition he had listened in vain; and he was left to infer, that, beyond a bill to correct some faults in the Poor-law, and the measure rashly introduced for registering arms, Government had nothing to propose. The organization, however, of nearly the whole population of Ireland for Repeal of the Union, with the whole physical force of the country at the command of the agitator of that question, was a state of things that could not exist without dangerous consequences to the community at large. Not that he believed that the agitators meant open resistance to Government, or that resistance, if in- tended, could not be repressed; but the danger lay in the strong manifestation that the Irish were hopelessly opposed in feeling to the people of this country; and while that feeling existed, the improvement of Ireland was impossible, and that country would remain a source of weakness instead of strength to Eng- land. The grievances of Ireland might not be accurately stated at the Repeal meetings, but the whole people could not be united without good ground for their opposition; and it was the duty of Government and Parliament to dis- cover the causes of the discontent.

Lord Howick proceeded, with great diffidence, to state his own views of the evils and their appropriate remedies. He traced the discontent to two great causes,—first, a sense of insult and degradation, connected principally with the laws relating to the Church; and secondly, the laws relating to landlord and tenant; the effects of both causes being aggravated by the physical dis- tress of the people. One chief cause of distress was the habitual and permanent subserviency of labour to land, and the continual struggle for its possession. He admitted that no direct interference of Parliament could remove that evil; but Government could remove the obstacles which exist to the employment of industry, and encourage the application of labour by insuring. its reward. The country is rich in natural resources: the industry and parsimony of the Irish people is proved in England and America, where they obtain labour for hire; and capital exists in England in such superabundance as to seek vents in South America, but the state of Ireland prevents the employment of capital and of labour : capital could not long be kept from Ireland if anything were done for its security. The avidity of the Irish for land and the combination to prevent the ejection of occupants prevent its improvement; for the landlord has not sufficient control to venture on improvements, while the tenant is also too uncertain of his possession to venture on them. The first object of Govern. ment should be to alter this state of things, and to provide a measure under which both holders ofland and landlords should be more secure in making any 'improvements which the soil might require. Sir James Graham had said that Government were prepared to give their attention to any suggestions which might be offered for the amelioration of the state of Ireland : but surely he should not wait for that. Why did a Government exist, if it was not to guide Parliament to the adoption of measures which the state of the country demanded ? The Government alone possessed the means of information which the occasion required —which could properly enable them to calculate the result, and direct the House to the proper course. Individual Members could only goad Government to the performance of their duty. The Poor-law provided no resource for the able-bodied poor who could not get employment. He thought it a necessary auxiliary to such a measure, that the industrious poor should in the first instance be employed onpublic works. Such was the system pursued in England in the reign of Queen Elizabeth, when there was extreme difficulty tbund in employing the labouring classes. The suppression of the monasteries had thrown a large number of poor, who used to beg at their doors, upon the public ; and among other works undertaken, was that of the draining of the fens of Lincolnshire, for the purpose of affording employment to those who would otherwise be idle and destitute. By such means of temporary relief, society was enabled to right itself, and the industrial character of the people was kept alive to await the arrival of better times. The expense of Irish rail- ways was much overrated : there was not, as in England, expensive ground to be purchased ; and the wages of the Irish labourers were not on the English scale. But even if those railways would have cost, as it had been said they would, ten millions sterling, how could such a sum be better spent ? He looked to systematic colonization, recently enforced upon the House by Mr. Charles Buller, conducted upon a great scale, as one of the moat important means which they could put in practice to obtain for Ireland that relief which she so much required. Another measure was the instruction of the Irish in the useful mechanical arts. if they meant to have peace in Ireland, they must reform the Established Church. They must begin by concessions to the Roman Catholics—repeal the provision in the Act of 1829 which denies a fact palpable to every man, the existence of the Roman Catholic hierarchy; and they must recognize the titles of the Bishops. He acquiesced in the proposition, that the whole of the property of the Irish Church should be vested in the bands of Commissioners, and that such a proportion of their funds should be by them employed to maintain the Protestant Church as the real wants of that Church should seem to require, and which a comparison of the propor- tions of Roman Catholics and Protestants would seem to render expedient ; while the remainder should go in due proportion to the Roman Catholic Church. He could not help thinking that the great difficulty they had to encounter from the necessity of providing for men of their own party who are unpopular in Ireland, might be met in some degree by a measure partially amalgamating the two Governments, making them more completely one and the same. He entirely concurred in the opinion already thrown out, that a very great advan- tage would result from the abolition of the Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear! ") It would be an improvement, if, instead of this cumbrous pageantry of a sham court, they should have an Irish Secretary of State sitting in London ; and let the money devoted to the idle parade of a Lord-Lieutenant he employed in the formation of public works in Ireland. He believed that it was too late to make the proposed inquiry this session ; for any policy, to do good, must be of a large and comprehensive nature. He recommended Government to mature some scheme after the close of the session, and to call Parliament together early in the winter, to devote five or six weeks to its exclusive consideration ; promising, that any well-digested and compre- hensive plan would be considered by the Opposition in the same spirit of sin- cerity and cordial cooperation with the measure of Catholic Emancipation. Such a plan the country expected, and had a right to expect, from Sir Robert Peel. He bad great power, and with that power an awful responsibility. " I am persuaded, that if, with all the energies of his mind, and with sin- gleness of purpose, he devotes himself to the high task to which Providence seems to have called him, of reorganizing the disjointed frame of society in Ire- land—I do believe, if he honestly undertakes this high and noble task, with the blessing of Providence, he will succeed ; and even if he fail, he will win the respect and admiration of all high-minded men. (Loud cheers.) But, Sir, if he is content to be borne passively along the current down which he is now so rapidly floating, he will be ultimately carried on with a still increasing rapidity; in his fall he will receive not the respect but the contempt of mankind, accom- panied, as it will be, by the fall of the United Empire." (Lord Howick sat down amid loud cheering, which was prolonged for some time.)

Mr. GALLY KNIGHT agreed that some plan of emigration should be adopted ; but thought that the advancement of money for railroads would be illusory. It was cruel to encourage agitation by a show of sympathy : the Irish people could only be conciliated by granting their demands ; to do which would not only cost any Minister his place, but any Sovereign his throne. Sir BENJAMIN HALL supported the motion ; anticipating a movement for Repeal in the Metropolis. Lord JOCELYN spoke on the opposite side ; and then the debate was adjourned.

Mr. MORGAN Jolts O'CONNELL was the first speaker on Tuesday, in support of the motion— Along with many arguments already used, he reminded the House that the Repeal agitation was owing to Lord Stanley's Registration Bill : a few weeks after the first division in favour of that bill, in 1840, the Repeal Asso- ciation was formed. Such was one of the effects of the unwillingness of the Government to extend political power to Ireland. He called on Lord Stanley to vindicate his consistency, in supporting the bill appropriating to the aboli- tion of the Vestry Cess, 60,000/., part of the revenues of the Irish Bishoprics, suppressed because the Bishops had no duties that could not be performed by the remaining Prelates, and yet resisting the appropriation of part of the Church revenues to education purposes. Some means ought to be devised for giving the Roman Catholic clergy a better education. The Maynooth clergy were said to be less learned and polished than those who had received their education abroad : but look at the smallness of the grant to Maynooth : he would give up Maynooth if the other side would give up the 600,000/. of Church revenue. An- other conciliatory step would be, to remove the interdict by which the Roman Ca- tholic Bishops were prevented from using the titles of the sees over which they presided. This prohibition was the more galling as the Catholic Bishop was of Course aware that he was recognized in his spiritual character by the law. Thus, if he ordained a priest, and that priest should afterwards become a mem- ber of the Church of England, he became de facto a clergyman of that Church his ordination by the Catholic Bishop being fully recognized by law. With respect to " fixity of tenure," all that was meant was, to give the tenant that interest in the soil which would attach him to it as the source of his support. The peasant should be, as had been pointed out, not only guaranteed in the possession of his land, but should also obtain compensation for any improve- ments he might make in it. The Irish franchise should be amended, and the voter should be protected from the landlord's influence. He gave his support to the motion with no object of displacing the present Ministry, but because he believed whatever party was in power must take up the case of Ireland. As to

Repeal, he believed that four-fifths of the Repeaters did not desire separation. He concluded by exhorting Government to revise their Irish policy, candidly to avow past errors, and to cement the Union by concession and confidence towards the Irish people.

Mr. SMYTHE said that Sir Robert Peel had proved himself a true prophet in anticipating that his difficulty would lie with Ireland— He was inclined to believe, however, that the difficulty had its origin less in Ireland than in England—less in the Popery of Ireland than in the " No Popery " of England ; a feeling which still lingered in the classical precincts of Exeter Hall, and evinced itself in thirty-nine petitions this session against the grant to Maynooth College—a number which seemed sacred in the calendar of Calvinism. Another formidable obstacle to conciliatory Go- vernment in Ireland was the prescriptive uutowardness of English policy to- wards that country. Mr. Pitt's conciliatory policy had been thwarted; so had Mr. Canning's ; and he must say, that he thought it above all things most untoward, that nut Mr. Canning but Sir Robert Peel—not the hand which was raised in defence, but that hand which was raised to attack—should have inscribed on the statute-book the Catholic Emancipation Act. The feelings which prompted the final mea,ure of emancipation were not those of sympathy for the sufferings of the Catholics : on the second reading of the bill, Sir Robert Peel told the House that he consented to it because he thought it necessary " for the diminution of the undue, illegitimate, and dangerous power of the Roman Catholics, and for the maintenance and permanent security of the Protestant interests." Could they wonder, then, that a boon so ungraciously conceded should have been received as this measure had been by the Irish people ? And what had

been the result ? Had the undue and dangerous and illegitimate power of the Roman Catholics been diminished ? or had the Protestant religion been rendered more stable and secure ? The measure had been clogged by restrictions, which it would have been a graceful concession on Sir

Robert Peel's return to power to remove. Another unexampled oppor- tunity of conciliation had been neglected Maynooth College was in debt ; representations had been mule to Lord Eliot ; but nothing had been done. He knew that there was great prejudice against the institution : sotto. Members said that the priests educated there were of low extraction, and less polite and learned than the old foreign-educated priests; but he did not find that the learning of those men exempted them from pains and penalties—(Loud Oppo- sition cheers)—or that their politeness saved them from persecution. He would not scruple to join issue upon this charge made against the priests of Maynooth. He thought it a fortunate occurrence that that priesthood was of popular origin. A priesthood for tit.: people should be of the people. (Op- position cheers.) That was his deliberate opinion. The priests acquired their influence from the connexion with the people ; and if Mr. Pitt's policy of governing their people through the priests had been carried out, they would have found the priests the active and successful promoters of peace and order. At a time when England and Scotland were in a state of rebellion, Lord Chesterfield had the courage to remove those harsh penal laws which bore so heavily upon the Roman Catholics of Ireland. The Roman Catholics did not disappoint the expectations which that statesman had formed. He called upon the Government, then, to come forward with large measures of conciliation—(Loud Opposition cheers)—to carry out those suggestions which had been made by Lord John Manners and Lord Howick. Let them govern Ireland in the spirit of Mr. Pitt. Did they suppose that that Minister, who fifty years ago wished to pass a measure for the emancipation of Catholics, would, after the adoption of that measure, have said, " We have passed the Emancipation Bill, we will go no further " ? (Loud cheers from the Oppo- sition, renewed at every sentence.) Did they suppose that that Minister, who contemplated a measure of tithe-commutation similar in spirit to that produced by Lord Stanley, would now be unprovided with a remedy for an agitation far more alarming, and proceeding from causes far more general than any which existed in his own day ? He was certain at least of one thing—that the states- man to whom he was referring would not have come down to that House with an Arms Bill, and an Arms Bill alone ; nor did be think that in such a mea- sure he would on one day have proposed a clause which might create alarm, and the next day have abandoned it because it did excite alarm- - and back recoiled, lie knew not why.

" E'eu at the sound himself had made " ;

or that he would come forward at a moment of political crisis and peril with a declaration of policy such as that of the noble Lord, (Eliot) in which it seemed the object of the noble Lord to prove that everybody was right but himself, and that all opinions were valuable but his own-1n which the noble Lord was everybody's humble servant by turns, but in which what were his own plans he totally omitted to state. In fact, he appeared to heprecisely what Mazarine described Monk to be—he was the humble servant of public events. He ap- peared to be waiting for something to turn up : he had no fixed plan to con- ciliate attachment, no fixed plan to put down sedition. All parties might de- voutly pray, that those disasters and horrors of civil war which the Eliot con- vention put an end to in Spain might not be the consequence of the Eliot go- vernment in Ireland." ( Vehement Opposition cheers.) Mr. HAWES pointed to a new danger from the existing agitation— The fact was, this state of uncertainty with respect to Irish affairs was detrimental to England as regarded her commerce, it was detrimental to Ireland, it was detrimental to the whole empire ; and he could assure Sir Robert Peel, that if the commerce of this country was to incur a fresh shock by reason of these disturbances, and if the Government were to leave matters as they were, a storm would be raised in England to which the present state of things in Ireland would be but as a summer- shower. He proceeded to read extracts from speeches and writings, to show that as early as 1834 the Irish people found that the Catholic Relief Bill did them no direct benefit; and that in 1836, Mr. Allen, the friend of Lord Hol- land, in a pamphlet which he wrote at that time, anticipated a cry for repeal of the Union unless something were done for the Irish. if Government con- tinued the course they had adopted, he firmly believed it would be the fate of a Tory Government a second time to dismember the empire. But he never would believe that Sir Robert Peel would belie the whole tenour of his previous life, or that he would have recourse to a system of blood and violence in order to sustain the Church of Ireland in its present unjust position. Talk of wasting the time of the House of Commons I—it was the Government that did so. Sir James Graham delivered a speech which seemed to imply that forcible measures would be taken ; Sir Robert Peel's speech modified the harshness of the first, restoring all to doubt ; the Attorney-General might have been expected to say something about the legality of the Repeal meet- ings and of Sir Edward Sugden's dismissal—but he said nothing of the kind ; Lord Eliot made an amiable speech, but not a single word did he utter as to the course which Government would pursue. This was conducting a debate ridiculously : a declaration from Government would have closed it. A time would come when they might be compelled to speak out, in the midst of agitation and anger, which were likely to have a material effect on the mea- sures which they might think it necessary to submit to the House.

Mr. Cownous opposed the motion—

He imputed the distress of Ireland to political combination and agitation, which, by making capital insecure, prevent it from flowing lute the country: and in proof he read extracts of letters from various Irish counties. One, from a Magistrate of Tipperary, described signal-fires blazing in all directions, with people about them yelling and shouting ferociously, " Repeal or blood!" Another, from a Magistrate of Westmeath, said that those who refused to pay Is. to the Repeal rent were denounced by the priests from the altar. Mr. Col- quhoun could not agree that either a course of conciliation or one of coercion was necessary; and, quoting an opinion expressed by Lord Plunkett, that meetings, though for legal objects, and unarmed, might be illegal, if their num- bers, language, emblems, or deportment were calculated to strike terror, called for the suppression of such assemblages by means of the law. The Government

ought just as soon to allow the Chartists to walk from one end of this country to the other, holding multitudinous meetings, terrifying the manufacturers, and scaring away the merchants, as permit these organized assemblages in

Ireland. Mr. O'Connell pointed to sympathy in America and France : it was not in that direction, however, that his own apprehensions pointed, but to the state of England and the manufacturing districts, and to the fact, known to every man in communication with those districts, that " we are walking on a volcano." If any remedy were to be found for the evils of Ireland, it must be in an improvement of its social system and in whatever would tend to develop its industry and induce its landlords to invest capital in the improvement of their lands. Bat, he repeated, there was no capital because there was no security. The Marquis of Lansdowne had attempted the improvement of his estate in Queen's County by introducing a new system of drainage, and he had brought over a gentleman from Scotland to superintend ; that gentleman and Lord Lansdowne's agent had been subjected to such threats that the Scotch gentleman had been obliged to leave Ireland. Let improvement be begun, therefore, by improving the jury-law, according to a suggestion by Mr. Shell, so as to make punishment certain to overtake the criminal. In a former debate, Mr. Roebuck bad proposed to place the Protestant and Roman Catholic Churches on an equality, and to connect the Roman Catholic priesthood with the State by a golden link. Would the priests consent ? Mr. Colqnhoun be- lieved that 400,000/. or 500,000/. would more than express the amount of the Established Church revenues in Ireland. The House had been told that there were about three thousand Roman Catholic priests in Ireland. Then there was the statement of Dr. Doyle, a man of high talent and experience, before the Lords' Committee in 1832, that each parish-priest in his diocese drew not less than 300/. per annum. Besides this, the curates also drew a large amount. A publication of the diocesan statutes of the province of Dublin, by Archbishop Murray, contained a statement of the fees to be ex- acted by the priests from the people : those fees were ten in number, and the lowest of them was ls. 6d. annually : now two of these annual fees, payable by 1,200,000 Roman Catholic families, would raise 180,0001.; and if any thing like an equal calculation was made of the other fees, taking them at the lowest, he did not think, according to their own statements, that the annual revenue of the Roman Catholic clergy could be less than from 600,000/. to 800,000/. The average revenue of the clergy of the Established Church was 150/ each, and this equally divided between Roman Catholic and Protestant would be 751.; and was it to be supposed that for this small pittance the Roman Catholic clergy would surrender their fees?

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD referred to Committees of the House which had detailed the grievances of Ireland and proposed remedies—agri- cultural schools, model-farms, public works, and above all, alteration of the law of landlord and tenant :

At present, the most oppressive evils are the amount of rent, which is greater than the tenant can pay, the consolidation of farms, and the con-

sequent eviction of tenants. No country afforded such scope for improvement as Ireland : the great bog of Allen might be drained, giving employment to thousands of people—a far better expedient than emigration. The law of ejectment differs from that of England in being more summary and oppressive. He had always been for maintain the Union ; but the principles of Imperial legislation ought to rest on perfect equality of rights ; whereas the present Union holds no power over the Irish people save that of arms.

Mr. ROBERT RATESON opposed the motion ; thanking Sir James Gra- ham for his manly declaration with respect to the Irish Church. He

averred that the tenants have great confidence in their landlords, and that in no country is there really more " fixity of tenure." Agitation and absenteeism were the causes of the present state of the country : he would compel absentees to return home, by taxing them ; and then agitation would die away.

Mr. Ross urged redress of abuses ; and particularly be thought that Government might adopt some useful measure to correct the evils of the present Grand Jury system.

Mr. MONATON Mm..stEs pointed to the debate itself as proving that the interests of Ireland were not neglected—

He deprecated the taunt that Ireland was treated as a conquered nation : the history of England itself began with a conquest. If any taunt were just, it was that England neglected the duty of protector: at that moment, Mr. O'Connell was the guardian of the peace of Ireland ; if he thought proper he could have civil war tomorrow. However, he approved, of ,the forbearance of Government. He did not think that sufficient regard had been shown to the religious feelings of the Irish ; and he earnealy wished that Govern- ment should begin measures of conciliation by giving the Roman Catholic clergy proper payment, and renewing our relations with the Court of Rome.

Mr. ROEBUCK commented on the position of the Government in the question— It was acknowledged by all parties that danger was imminent ; for many nights together the extraordinary crisis had been discussed ; and what was the

spectacle exhibited to this great country by her present rulers ? His feeling was that of disappointment and grief, that those who alone at the present time could guide the destinies of the country had exhibited themselves an totally unequal to the position which they held. The spectacle before them was a debate without a single guide, or a single principle intimated for the country to judge how the future was to be, with reference to one great and important part of the empire. Mr. Roebuck proceeded to contrast the calm, temperate, and dignified bearing of the Irish Members in laying their grievances before the House, with the petulant appeals to party prejudices made by Members on the Ministerial benches, in their attempts to bring a damaging fire mi their own leader—that leader from whom they were in a state of revolt am. defec- tion. Next, he commented on the successive exhibitions of the several Minis- terial speakers. Lord Eliot, for all his kind intentions and generous teeling, entered on the topics of the debate more in the spirit of a third-rate clerk in his office than that of the bead of such a department. He was followed by

Sir James Graham, who sunk beneath his subject, grew frightened by it, lost all power over the Mouse, and at last over himself. If his temper corresponded with that of his colleagues, it gave Ireland little to hope from their adminis-

tration. The rekindling of a bitter animosity—the recurrence to old fcelings-

a total forgetfulness of our present position—a constant looking back to the feelings engendered in the mind by the contemplation of past misery—a narrow contracted retrospect of bygone times, without a single enlightened or generous view as to the course to be taken for the future—this was a fair, though it might be a severe description of Sir James's disquisition. On an occasion when civil war was threatened, the AttornejuGenetal tnr Ireland harangued the House until he nearly harangued everybody out of it, with some story about his grandfather, and a long explanation why he was not elected for Dublin Uni- versity ! All this time, Sir Robert Peel, the sagacious manager of Parlia- mentary debates, seemed to be whirled along unthinking, and never stepped forward to show the governing mind of his party I He sat like a general in his camp to whom successive messengers brought news of fresh desertions. Among the deserters was Mr. Smythe, who indulged in some Liberal expres- sions: would he give some Liberal votes ? Captain Roue said that the Arms Bill was worse than useless: but he had voted for it, and he left the House in doubt as to his vote on the present motion. Mr. Shaw warned the Premier, that if he did not govern Ireland by and for the Orange party, but for English and Irish welfare, be must do without the Orange party. He was to govern Ireland by means of the "garrison " of Protestants, not on the broad. est principles of justice guided by the condition of the whole people ! " We are told, however, that this party has the land of Ireland—the whole wealth of the country. If it were true, what has it to do with the question ? They are in the proportion of 800,000 to 8,000,000; and if they possessed every farthing of the money, and every acre of the land of the country, I would not for one moment place the happiness of the one in the scale against that of the other. (Loud cheers.) It is clear that 800,000 could not possess the whole of the land if the country was well governed—if it were not, in fact, governed through a dominant party. And when, in addition, we recollect the distinction made by religion—when we not only have the poor and the rich, but the Catholic and the Protestant—and when, by our system, we thus foment other grievances by the bitterness of theological hatred—common justice demands that we should not stand aloof from the discussion of the wrongs we have inflicted, but that we should take the part of the weak against the strong; of the many against the few." (Loud cheers.) The Members of the late Government addressed themselves to the discussion nearly in the same narrow spirit ; and, when Sir Robert Peel did come forth, he hoped that Mr. Macaulay's display of party- spirit would not he imitated. He knew that Sir Robert Peel had difficulties to contend with ; and he quar- relled with him, not because he had done actual mischief, but because he had not shown himself equal to the new exigencies of the case, and ready to grapple with those difficulties. Physical suffering, exasperated by a sense of wrong and insult, was the disease of Ireland; and to complain of agitation as the cause was as wise as to complain of the heat of fever. "I do not think Mr. O'Connell is at the bottom of all the misery of Ireland. I think the course he has pur- sued has often done great mischief; but, by his great and wonderful abilities, his untiring energy, he has wrought for them changes no other man could effect ; and though we may complain of the means which be employs, and in many things I think him wholly indefensible, still it must be clear to the people of Ireland that he is their friend ; and it is also certain that he has for the first time made you think seriously of the wants of the Irish people. (Cheers.) Like all enthusiastic men at the head of an enthusiastic people, he has been alternately a dupe and an impostor. (Laughter and cheers.) Mr. O'Connell is by no means very nice in his expressions: and I wish to express my meaning without any shading down of opinion. I never can believe that Mr. O'Connell believes that the repeal of the Union will produce the hal- cyon days he promises; but it answers his purpose, and I suppose he thinks the end justifies the means. He has produced certainly one effect—that, in spite of the indifference so long exhibited towards Ireland, you are at last driven to consider her grievances. It was the only way of separating the English Government from the Orange faction, to make you fear the resentment of the large masses of the people." Besides the physical evils of Ireland, there was that badge of conquest the Protestant Church; and if some Government did not destroy its domination, the people would destroy it themselves. " Just see how easily it could be done. Mr. O'Connell governs Ireland: let him suggest that no tithe shall be paid, and let him go a step further and say that no rent shall be paid, and it would be found extremely difficult to get either tithes or rent. (Murmurs, and cries of "Sear! " from the Ministerial benches.) Ay, • Hear, hear I' if you please. Do not fancy that we are whispering secrets to one another here ; or that Mr. O'Connell has not well weighed each step of the process by which he will compel you to right the wrongs of his country. (.. Hear, hear! ") If the Protestant feeling of England be of that strong de- scription—if it be of that bigoted nature which the honourable and gallant Member for Westminster described, that it will not endure a proposition for legally and quietly relieving the people of Ireland from what they con- ceive to be a badge of slavery—then I say that the Protestant feeling of Eng- land must receive a lesson at the bands of the Catholics of Ireland." ("Hear, hear ! " and murmurs.) Were the Irish people to be told that the Protestant feeling of England was alone to be consulted, and that no Minister dared face it? When Sir Robert Peel passed Catholic Emancipation, he faced that feeling, and the only loss he incurred was the gratification of representing the mind and Christian virtue of Oxford University : if he feared to face it again, some one else would be found to do so. Mr. Roebuck devoted some pains to show that tithe, originally created by Roman Catholics and devoted to Roman Catho- lic purposes, and diverted from those purposes by the will of the nation, might again be diverted to other purposes. The support of the Church meant nothing but money. He was attacking no man's Protestant faith, but objected only to one man's being compelled to pay for services rendered to another—(A laugh on the Ministerial side)—and when he did so he was laughed at ; which showed, that Protestant faith and Christian feeling meant money in the opinion of the laughers. Ajradual extension of the English Poor-law to Ireland, imposing the rate not on the poor tenant but on the landlord, would give to the landlords a direct moneS.-interest in the welfare of the tenantry, and would be the first great step towards the arrangement of the difficulties connected with the tenure of the land. Let Government do that, maintain the Catholic clergy in a de- cent and proper manner, do all they could to promote the wellbeing of the people, and renounce all connexion with the dominant Orange party—com- bine their forces and throw themselves on the good sense of England—and difficulties would vanish before prudence and firmness.

Sir ROBERT PEEL now rose. He began his speech by putting aside every thing of a merely personal or party character ; seeking to vindi- cate his course by no recrimination— Ministers were charged with resisting inquiry: but inquiry was hardly the object of the motion ; and several Members would support it on totally different grounds. The inference which the public would draw, were it carried, was an expression of want of confidence in Ministers. Still, if thought there was something in party connexions which disabled Ministers from satisfactorily conducting the affairs of Ireland, no party or personal considerations ought to prevail over those opinions; and Mr. Smythe and others had better follow up their speeches by votes against Ministers—a course infinitely more friendly than lending a hollow support. Mr. O'Brien had declared the motion to be an arraignment of the conduct of Parliament and Government towards'Ireland : Sir Robert first referred to the impeached conduct of Parliament in pecuniary affairs, a conduct towards Ireland described as niggardly in the extreme. His firm impression was, that the accusation was unjust and unfounded : it was not unimportant, for it was calculated to make a great impression in Ireland. A Committee was formerly appointed, on the motion of Mr. Spring Rice to consider a similar charge; and from the Report of that Committee Sir Robert read extracts. It firms referred to the principle under which the Irish civil Estimates were originally made part of the public expenditure. Parliament was bound to provide not less than 73,277/. (the average ex- penditure at the end of last century for the encouragement of agricul- ture and manufactures, and for charitable purposes in Ireland,) to be devoted to local objects in Ireland as the United Parliament should direct : in twenty-eight years that sum would have been 1,460,000/. : the total amount actually voted by Parliament in that period was 5,348,000/. Under the head of Irish Miscellaneous Estimates and Civil Contingencies, the sum contracted for by the Union would have amounted to 127,860!.: it amounted to 5,003,062/. Compare Ireland and Scotland, excepting the votes which would include the Civil Government of Ireland, which is more extensive than in Scotland : the aggregate amount for corresponding purposes voted for seven 3 ears in Scotland was 660,0001.; in Ireland 2,260,000/. Mr. O'Brien argued that the scale of Ireland's contribution towards the revenue fixed at the time of the Union (2-17ths) was too great in proportion : but the question now was, not what Ireland ought to have paid at the time of the Union, but what was the present animus of Parliament towards Ireland. If the two countries were to be united, the great object was to oppose no checks to a perfectly free interchange of pro- ductions, no system of drawbacks; and therefore any discrimination of indirect taxes was difficult and unwise. As a general rule, the Customs-duties should be identical. In the Excise the principle is nearly the same ; but when there is a distinction it is, as perhaps it ought to be, in favour of Ireland. Repeal of the Union could not possibly benefit Ireland in direct taxation : in that country there are no window-duties, no assessed taxes, no property-tax. Since the new arrangement of the Post-office duty, Ireland has transmitted 2,0001. to the Exchequer : all the advantage of the penny-postage is extended to Ire- land gratuitously, and the whole of the Post-office service in that country is conducted at the public charge. Every part of the empire has a duty on soap, excepting only Ireland. He claimed no merit for these things; but they dis- proved the assumption that Parliament was disposed to be unjust to Ireland in financial matters.

The Executive Government of Ireland was attacked. Was any act of in- tolerance or injustice alleged—any reversal of the legislation of their predeces- sors—any hostility to the Roman Catholics ? On the contrary, almost the only thing adduced as proof of misconduct was the appointment to judicial offices of two gentlemen, against whom the objection, it seemed, was, that they might have been too merciful in the administration of justice. It was disparaging to Ireland to rest such sweeping accusations on such narrow grounds, and to attach such importance to the exercise of judicial patronage. Mr. O'Brien had read an extract from a newspaper, alleging that Ireland was made use of to provide for relations and dependents of Ministers. If there were any peculiar source of patronage in Ireland, it would be admitted to he the Irish Church : but the first letter on the subject which Sir Robert Peel wrote to the Lord-Lieu- tenant, in September 1841, was couched in these terms—" Let it be understood that in respect to the Church preferments, you will act upon your own sense of duty, and on the result of your own inquiries; and, if that sense of duty prompts you to prefer the claims of professional merit, let your inquiries be di- rected to the ascertainment of those claims." Sir Robert continued—" Perhaps I am unwise in reading this letter. We are charged with being subservient to a party, and thinking of nothing but Parliamentary support, and sacrificing the in- terests of Ireland for fear of offending friends. I think the communications I have quoted from prove certainly the injustice of that charge, and may account in some degree for the difficulties which we have had to contend against in attempting to govern Ireland, not through the intervention of a party, but with reference to public policy. ("Hear, hear! ") My letter proceeded—' It is absolutely necessary, for the best interests both of Church. and State, that the patronage of the Irish Church should be applied on such principles. I will willingly forego any Parliamentary support which would only be con- ciliated by the disregard of those principles; though, indeed, the fact is that (if such considerations are to be attended to) the interests of Go- vernment are in the long run much better promoted by the honest exercise of patronage than by administering it to favour individual supporters." Sir Robert next alluded to the Croal contract ; contending that it was necessary, for the prevention of jobbing, to throw such contracts completely open to pub- lic competition. "Now 2,000/. less is offered by one than another. We take the cheaper. The successful competitor happens to be a Scotchman, and then there is an outcry against us for insulting and offending Ireland by transferring contracts. (Loud cries of "Hear!") I can only say, Sir, that 1 regret the thing passed from the Irishmen. (" Hear!" and a laugh.) I heartily wish the Scotchman had not made the cheapest bid. (A laugh.) I did whatever I could, consistently with my duty, to prevent any injury to the individual un- successful. But you are disparaging Ireland when you make it a grievance that Irishmen may prove unsuccessful in public contracts. These are small matters—(" Hear, hear ! " from the Opposition)—but you have urged them, and is it not necessary to answer them ?" (Cheers.) The most ungenerous charge of all was that connected with education in Ireland. Had Ministers wished to make concession to the power of party, they might either have withdrawn the grant of public money from the National system, or have established a separate system for members of the Established Church : in the hope of promoting religious peace, they adhered to the National system, and thereby incurred much of that reproach which had weakened their support in Ireland ; while Members opposite actually taunted them with having dis- gusted the Protestant clergy ! Mr. O'Brien also charged Government with not having appointed Irishmen to public offices. " It is with extreme regret that I hear charges of this nature brought against the Government. I recollect that, some years since, I had to appoint two Commissioners of Metropolitan Police— exclusively local offices : I never gave a thought as to the country or the reli- gion of the persons whom i appointed; but it so happened that I selected two Irishmen. I believe that every other member of the Government has acted upon the same principle ; and that the fact of a man's being an Irishman has never operated to his prejudice with regard to any public appointment. The only direct charge of this nature which I remember to have ever been pre- fen ed against the Government, I read the other day. We had to appoint three sculptors to erect as many monuments to celebrate naval heroes in Greenwich Hospital, Parliament having voted a sum of money for that purpose : I made the selection, and it happened that two out of the three whom I selected were Irishmen. I was not conscious that I had done so, until I saw an attack made upon the Government because two out of three sculptors appointed were natives of Ireland I "

The attention of the House had been called to the social, political, and re- ligious grievances of Ireland. The social evils—the state of the demand for labour and fur land—it was impossible to deny : they had been the subject of repeated and protracted inquiry ; and it was utterly impossible for the Go- vernment or the Legislature to devise any immediate remedy for evils of that nature. Any alteration of the law of landlord and tenant which seriously affected the free possession of property—the great principle which distinguishes civilized from barbarous communities—would be most injurious to the interests of Ireland. "If you tell the possessor of wealth in Ireland, that by the purchase of land he shall not gain the uncontrolled right of property over that land, in any opinion, you will strike a fatal blow at the prosperity of that country." But he spoke generally of the right of property, and not of the abuse of that right ; and he would not resist inquiry into the peculiarities or abuses of the Irish law. " When I assert that the just rights of property ought to be re- spected, I am far from saying, that if a remedy could be applied to prevent the undue exercise of power in Ireland, I would not give to such a proposition the most attentive consideration. If you tell me that a tenant-at-will improves the property he occupies, relying upon the justice and generosity of his land- lord, and that, having so improved that property, he gives a vote, or does some other act, hostile to the feelings of the landlord, and is ejected from his tenancy,

no compensation being made to him for his outlay—if the landlord takes ad- vantage of such hostile vote or act, for the purpose of availing himself of any benefit he may gain by taking possession of the land without affording compen- sation to the outgoing tenant—that is undoubtedly a gross injustice. 1 trust and believe that this is a case of rare occurrence ; and if so, it may be difficult to apply a legislative remedy. But if such cases were of frequent occurrence, and a legislative remedy could be safely applied, I think it would be the duty of the House to afford such remedy." ( Cheers.) Lord Howick suggested the outlay of eight or ten millions on railways in Ireland : and there was no objection to such application of capital, provided the works undertaken were likely to succeed, and to lay the foundation of permanent prosperity. But the experience afforded by the erection of the Union W orkhouses was not favourable : while they were build- ing and-they afforded work to the people, there was great apparent satisfaction; but when the people were called upon to repay the advance of 1,200,000L or 1,500,0001., and that after a sudden fall of prices, there was general discontent. The effect of railways is much mistaken : between two mercantile towns they are of the greatest advantage to commerce ; but he doubted the benefit to a neighbourhood not mercantile. Lord Howick mentioned emigration as a mode of relief; which he was disposed to think a more efficacious mode ; but he did not allude to the application of public funds to that purpose. With regard to the political condition of Ireland, his opinion, often expressed, was, that there ought to be perfect civil equality. He had said in Opposition, and he repeated now, that he knew of no office tor which the Roman Catholic ought to be held disqualified. When in Opposition, he had approved of the appointments of Mr. Shell, Mr. More O'Ferrall, and Mr. Wyse. Lord Howick accused him of not removing from the statute-book the oath which charged the Roman Catho- lics with idolatry : he did repeal that oath, the declaration against transub- stantiation, in 1829,—pronouncing it to be without an object : and were he to legislate again, he should now act in the same spirit. Sir Robert Peel alluded to Lord Stanley's Registration Bill; taking credit for not using his majority to enforce it ; and declaring his belief that causes were in operation in Ireland which reduced the number of voters, and which would require a remedy. Ad- verting to the religious question, he contrasted the opinions of Mr. Roebuck, who would convert the whole ecclesiastical revenues of Ireland to State pur- poses; of Lord Howick, who would not extinguish the Protestant Church in Ireland; of Lord John Russell, who would maintain it for fear of endan- gering Established Churches in England and Scotland; and of Lord Pal- merston, who did not regard the Protestant Church as a grievance, but would constitute the Catholic Church a kind of modified establishment, on a footing of "perfect equality " with the Protestant. What did he mean by " equality " ? Should six-sevenths of the Church revenues be given to the Catholics, according to their numerical proportion, and only one-seventh re- tained for the Establishment ? should a like proportion of the ecclesiastical edifices be transferred ? The Established Church is represented in the Par- liament: should the Protestant Bishops be excluded, or should the Roman Catholic Bishops be admitted? and if the Irish Roman Catholic Bishops were admitted, why not admit the English Roman Catholic Bishops ? But then the relation of the Protestant religion to the State would be completely altered. Describing other difficulties, Sir Robert Peel pointed to the Act of Union, and to the danger of departing from contracts of the kind on any grounds short of absolute necessity. "These are great national contracts. You overcome great prejudices and obstinate objections by making certain engagements. You give these engagements all the force of law. You guarantee, as far as it is in the power of the Legislature to do so, permanence in their duration. It has a great tendency to shake confidence in the faith of the Legislature if you depart from them without the strongest proof of necessity. You may again have to deal with violent prejudices and violent objections. You may again have to offer equivalent measures of precaution and security for the purpose of abating those prejudices. if you can prove that in former instances you have main- tained your faith, the public will then place reliance on your new assurances, will accept your new securities, and relinquish their long-cherished prejudices. But if the public find that no faith is to be placed in your pledges, and that, after entering into a contract, you cannot fulfil it, then your proceedings will be accompanied with a great disadvantage, and your power of doing good. will be di- minished, in consequence of the public confidence in your acts being diminished." Mr. Grattan, Mr. Canning, and Lord Plunkett concurred in disclaiming any act to weaken the foundations of the Established Church in Ireland. Seeing the concessions which have actually been made—the reduction of the Esta- blishment, the number of Bishops, and the amount of the ecclesiastical reve- nues—the new appropriation and redistribution of those revenues—the trans- fer of tithes from the tenant to the landlord—could he hope to attain peace by any partial and limited concessions like those which Lord Howick advised ? He did not know how to appropriate so small a sum as Lord Howick would divert to the purposes of the Roman Catholic religion. In 1829 he insisted on regarding the question of the Catholic Emancipation as one of civil pri- vilege alone, distinct from any question of religion; and he now much doubted whether, if the Government were suddenly to make any declaration of their intention to provide for the members of the Roman Catholic Church establishment, the discontent in Ireland would not rather be increased than diminished. " I fear, therefore, that the honourable and learned Member fee Bath will denounce me as having entirely failed in fulfilling the duties of a statesman. (" Bear, hear .1") I think it would not be for the public inte- rests that I should make the concessions which he advises with regard to the Irish Church. If there are others willing to make those concessions—if this House, or the majority of this House, thinks ,that the time has arrived for considering that question—I leave them fairly to express their opinions by their votes ; and 1 am perfectly certain, that any arrangement of a matter of this kind may be more satisfactorily made by others than could possibly be made by me, or by those who concur with me : and as I said before, I repeat again—let no partiality for the present Government, let no past declarations in their favour, let no confidence on other grounds, prevent honourable gen- tlemen who entertain that opinion from expressing it by recording their votes on the present occasion." Sit Robert argued against considering the repeal of the Union in the same light with the repeal of any other act of Parliament ; and he described the dif- ficulties of governing two independent nations in harmony. He replied to the demand that he should declare his course—" I am prepared to pursue that course which I consider I have pursued, namely, to administer the government of Ireland upon the principles of justice and impartiality. (Cheers.) I am prepared to recognize the principle established by law, that there shall be equality of civil privileges. I am prepared, in respect of the franchise, to give a substantial and not a fictitious right of suffrage. In respect to the social con- dition of Ireland, we are prepared also—but that is a matter fur legislation, and we all feel that no partial legislation will be proper or effective—we are pre- pared to consider the relations of landlord and tenant deliberately, and all the important questions involved therein. With respect to the Established Church, I have already stated that we are not prepared to make one alteration in the law by which that Church and its revenues shall be impaired. (Cheers and counter-cheers.) It is said, on the other hand, Why do you do nothing? why stand with folded arms ? why don't you bring in measures at once? " I know what a tendency there is, particularly iu some quarters, to press for mea- sures of coercion. But we must have regard to the real circumstances before us, and to the means in the possession of the Government. Demands may be made for new measures upon which to rely for the suppression of distur- bance. Sir, I claim for the Government the entire right to judge with re- gard to the discretion to be exercised either as to the application of the existing laws or as to an appeal to Parliament for new ones. I am not ashamed of acting with forbearance and moderation in matters of this kind." He believed that the clamour for new restrictions and powers does not add to the strength of the Executive : on the other hand, that the agitation could not proceed without ranging on the side of Government many, Catholics as well as Protestants, who must be alarmed at the consequences of that agitation ; and he felt a source of strength and confidence in the loyalty of the well-affected. "Believing that forbearance of the Government—while forbearance can he safely continued—will add rather to their strength than cause weakness, our firm determination is, I repeat, to do every thing that can be done by authority or by power to resist the success of the Repeal of the Union, by any other mode than by the constitutional mode, the deliberate act of the Legislature." He concluded by reminding the Roman Catholics of the concessions already made to them—of the kindly feeling evinced—of their common country, common cause, and fear of common disaster—as reasons why they should join in firm resistance to the agitation for Repeal of the Union. Lord Joitri RUSSELL declared he had listened to Sir Robert Peel's speech with any thing but satisfaction—

It was less like the address of a Minister than that of a Member in Opposition Ending faults with the propositions of a Government. In the present alarm- ing state of things he saw cause Tor fear—the fear of doing injustice. He ap- proved of Sir Robert Peel's resistance to the advice of irresponsible persons, who urged premature measures of coercion ; and allowed that it was impossible to concede all demanded by the multitudes in Ireland : but not less reprehen- sible was the course taken by Government—the course of doing nothing at all, but waiting to hear the proposals of other Members, cavilling about them, and adopting none. He denied the practical equality of privileges between Eng• land and Ireland ; and then he touched upon many of the grievances already pointed out. He would not entirely destroy the Established Church in Ireland ; but, without producing a plan, he said that the Roman Catholic Bishops and clergy ought to be put upon a footing of perfect equality with the Protestant Bishops and clergy. The whole system of appointing partisans should be abandoned ; and Sir Robert Peel should do as Cromwell did when he appointed Sir Mat- thew Hale to administer justice, though that lawyer doubted the authority of Cromwell himself. Lord John alluded to Mr. Fox's conciliatory measures in 1782, when the Volunteers were in arms—to Mr. Pitt's promise of Catholic Emancipation immediately after the rebellion in Ireland—and to the Duke of Wellington's concession of Catholic Emancipation, under the avowed dread of civil war as examples for Sir Rotert Peel. Dilating on the possible diffi- culties which might accrue in our foreign relations, he warned Ministers to beware the consequences of injustice to Ireland.

Mr. Sergeant MURPHY moved the adjournment of the debate, which was rejected, by 218 to 82 ; but, moved again by Mr. BLEwITT, it was agreed to, at three o'clock in the morning.

Next evening the discussion was begun by Mr. Sergeant MURPHY ; who urged the Government to devise remedies for the admitted grievances— Mr. Tennent had attributed the acknowledged peace under Lord Normanby's rule to the appointment of political partisans to judicial offices : but even if that were the source of peace and prosperity, it ought to be adopted. He urged the imitation of Sir Charles Bagot's policy in Canada ; called to mind that even the 11 hugs failed when they resorted to coercion in i834; and, referring to Sir Robert Peel's letter to Lord De Grey, asked how Government came to appoint Dr. Daly, whose harangues in Exeter Hall had set a number of young English people against their Irish 'fellow subjects ? Among specific measures. Ser- geant Murphy pressed for reduction of the Church revenues, and a modifica- tion of tenant-law like that recommended by Mr. O'Ferrall. He vindicated the priests, declaring that but for their interference the agitation in Ireland would have assumed a much more dangerous character ; and he called for a statement of what Government intended to do after Parliament should break up ?

Lord BERNARD opposed the motion ; denying that the Protestant Church—the church of the true religion, and identical with the ancient church of Ireland—was a grievance.

Sir WnisTolf BARRON deprecated Repeal ; insisted on redress of grievances ; and specially recommended a law to make landlords pay for tenants' improvements, and the suggestions of Mr. Lynch, the Mas- ter in Chancery, and Mr. 'Griffiths, the eminent Irish engineer, for the improvement of the country and employment of the poor.

Mr. G. A. HAMILTON was of opinion that the present forced excite- ment in Ireland must be overcome by the law, or it would overpower the law— He charged the Ministers with mistaking the Conservatives—with standing aloof from that party, instead of inviting them to cooperate in conciliating the Catholics. Those who were anxious for tranquillity, however, should waive causes of dissatisfaction, and strengthen the position of Government ; and after the repression of disturbance, public works might be extended in Ireland, and a Committee might be appointed to investigate information already collected, to see how far legislation could be brought to bear in correcting the social evils of the country.

Mr. B. ROCHE avowed himself a thorough and uncompromising Re- pealer— Denying that the people of Ireland had ever placed confidence in the Whigs, he disclaimed any intention of promoting their return to office. Could it have been possible to make him a more thorough Repealer, the speeches which he bad heard would have done so : Sir James Graham charged the Irish people with a " rebellious spirit "; and Sir Robert Peel announced not a single remedy that could give satisfaction to the people. If at the meetings of the Cabinet, which from all he had heard were not quite so peaceable as those of the Re- pealers—(Loud laughter and cheering)—any definite measures had been decided upon, he was sure that Sir Robert Peel would have been but too happy to state them. Commenting on various speeches, Mr. Roche characterized Lord How- ick's as that of a man who had not only the will but the mental power requisite for the government of a country. Alluding to foreign sympathy with Repeal, he remarked, that Repealers could not prevent Christian men in America from sympathizing, nor the French press from turning its attention to the state of Ireland ; nor would they if they could. Let it be proved that they ought to prevent those countries from sympathizing with Ireland. Did not England extend sympathy to Poland, Greece, Belgium, and Syria ?

Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN denied that the Repealers spoke the senti- ments of the Irish people ; averred that the Protestant Church was a blessing to the peasantry of Ireland ; but described the struggle in Ireland as that of poverty against opulence ; and warned the House that if they rejected the band which was now extended to them in prayer, they might soon be assailed with the clenched fist.

Mr. HUME assailed the Established Church of Ireland as the grand grievance : they were going to war to maintain that sinecure Church.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER criticised the debate ; the most surprising and Interesting discussion he had ever.heard in Parliament— He never heard a great question more calmly or fitly discussed; and he thanked Sir Robert Peel in particular fur those feelings of warm and generous

humanity and patriotism which prevented him from having recourse to the vulgar plan of coercion. If he could only acknowledge abuses in the Church— defend it from some arguments ab inconnenienti about what should be done with the Catholic Bishops—hint that it was a subject on which he would not rashly pronounce an opinion, thereby giving hopes that he would pronounce an opinion by and by—even if that were all that could now be got, there was no despair of sufficient measures to put down the agitation in Ireland by granting just

demands. Mr. Buller alluded to the speeches of Ministerial Members, " some friends of mine below the gangway on the other aide," especially that of Captain Roue—" My first impression was, to lift up my bands in wonder and say, what have we been differing about so long ? for what have we been abusing one another on the hustings and in the House? Why have we been calling you bigots, and you styling us enemies of the Church ? (" Hear, hear ! " and laughter.) What an agreeable disappointment, to find that your opinions on the great fundamental question of the Church agree with us more than with the Government ! (Cheers and laughter.) It may, perhaps, be owing to some of them being young Members of little experience, that they have not yet learned how to make their votes coincide with their speeches. (A laugh.) But these things come gradually." (Laughter.) He exhorted the House to re- member the had feeling engendered in Ireland by the conquest, and by great oppressions, when regarding the petulance exhibited about smaller grievances. He would not destroy the Protestant Church, but he would put the two. Churches on a footing of perfect equality ; and he pointed out the mischievous effect of withdrawing all State connexion from those who were the real clergy of the people. Alluding to the question of tenures, he asked what would have. become of the rights of property in England, if the rights of the landlord had not been modified by the existence of a poor-law and law of settlement ?

Lord Joust MANNERS thought that the motion had been made in 'a fair spirit, and he would give it his vote. Even Tory Lord-Lieutenants might copy the policy of Lord Strafford—the man that introduced flax into Ireland, and procured for Ireland the victualling of the Navy.

Mr. MUNTZ complained that Ireland and England were only treated too much alike, and without a change both would go to ruin.

Mr. FERRAND said that if this were a vote of want of confidence in Ministers, he should betray his constituents were he to oppose it : if it were a vote on the Irish question only, he would vote with Ministers. Let Government, he said amid repeated cheers, survey the frightful and dangerous state of Wales. He looked to the winter with fear and trembling. Government did nothing : they were impotent for good and powerless to protect. Let them tell him what they meant to do for England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales ; for they had deceived every party.

Mr. BLEwerr supported the motion.

Viscount PALmEntrroN was met with a storm of noises, Members being impatient for a division : he quietly waited till the uproar sub- sided, and then entered on a criticism of the debate, less remarkable for what was said than for what was unsaid— He commented on the position of Government between conflicting powers urging severally coercion and remedies ; a Cabinet, it was rumoured, divided even within itself. Much importance appeared to be attached to what he said—too much, as in the case of his prediction last year that the larvest would not be abundant, which was supposed to make dealers hoard their corn: he had told Sir Robert Peel that if he left office he would soon be invited to return; but occurrences within those walls made him doubt his anticipation, and he felt bound in honour to give warning of his altered view. (Laughter.) Referring to the subject of debate, he pronounced repeal of the Union equi- valent to dismemberment of the empire, cavil war even being preferable to such a calamity ; and then he repeated what he had said in a previous debate con-. cerning the Church—that lie would maintain the Establishment, reducing it in cases where there were very few Protestant parishoners (in some parishes there was only one Protestant ;) placing the Catholic episcopacy on a proper footing, and endowing the pariah clergy, with probably. a grant of 300/. or 4001. to build each glebe-house; and increasing the grant to Maynooth College. Other countries set the example : Catholic Austria supports entire Protestant parishes; it is the same in Bavaria • and Belgium provides for the Protestant, Greek, Catholic, and Jewish Churches. He would not admit that, in passing the Irish Reform Bill, the Whig Ministers meant to restrict the franchise as it has been restricted by the decisions of Irish Judges : the landlord who desires to qualify a tenant must give him for 101. what is worth 20/..; which makes it almost impossible for the landlord to grant leases. It is a maxim in public affairs, to distinguish between what is difficult and what invincible: it is yet time to do what Ireland needs : another maxim was, to know the time to deal with a matter—another, that time and tide wait for no man ; and public affairs will not wait for the indecision of cabinets. No doubt, Ministers were strenuously, opposed by some on their side ; but if they were fit for the responsibilities of the task which they had undertaken, they should disregard allsuch considera- tions, for they would meet with more than a corresponding support from the Opposition side of the House—(" Rear, hear ! " and Ithqghter)—and if they failed in their endeavours to pacify Ireland by the application of the principles of justice, they would fall with honour. At all events, he hoped that Lord Stanley, who was to reply to him, would continue the " merciful silence " of his colleagues, and leave to the Irish the hope that their claims were yet to be considered.

Lord STANLEY, in a vaguer and less comprehensive manner retraced much of Sir Robert Peel's ground ; making a good deal of the conflict of opinion among the opponents of Government— It had been convenient for members of the late Government to dwell upon the political class of grievances. Ministers were charged with intending to do nothing for the franchise: but Lord Eliot had announced a bill for amending the Poor-law, comprising an improvement in the franchise. Ministers were only anxious to pass the Arms Bill because it would expire this session. Re had been asked how he could object to a further reduction of the Irish Chutell, revenues: why, he had sacrificed, not merely office but private friendship, on the principle that he would not alienate the Church property. He went on to show the difficulties of treating the two Churches on a footing of "equality "; declaring that the proposed equality would soon end in the supremacy of the Roman Catholic Church; and as a Protestant Minister, the servant of the Protestant Sovereign of a Protestant country, he maintained that the Church establishment should be a Protestant establishment. The settleuient of the relation of landlord and tenant was most difficult for the Legislature to handle; but he acknowledged that if the Irish landlords, as a class, dealt with their tenants otherwise than the landlords of England, a case was made out for the interference of the Legislature. He admitted Mr. Charles Buller's distinction about the poor-rate ; but, on the other hand, the Irish landlord had difficulties in removing a tenant, which did not obstruct the landlord in England. To shift a bankrupt tenant from a large farm which he could not manage, to a smaller which his means might compass, an every-day process in England, wax a change which in Ireland would involve the danger of bloodshed. To a Com- mittee, however, of mere inquiry into the law of landlord and tenant, the Go-

vernment would have made no objection. He saw nothing in the state of Ire- land to make him despair of conducting its affairs through the present crisis, if Ministers had the confidence of the House: if not, the sooner it was declared, the better, and he should bow to the decision and resign. He anticipated, however, no such result: " and if, in the midst of these difficulties, we are ho- noured with the support and confidence of this House and of the country, which first raised us to power, we shall be ready still, honestly, firmly, and fearlessly, j

to pursue that course which in the calm and deliberate judgment, in the united opinion of the Cabinet, we have adopted "—in the united opinion of the Cabinet, to which helonged the Duke of Wellington, whose policy Lord John Russell had complimented.

Mr. O'BRIEN having briefly. replied, the House divided, at half-past two o'clock on Thursday morning : for the motion, 164 ; agaiust, 243 ; majority, 79. IRISH ARMS BILL.

On the motion to go into Committee on the Arms Bill, on Thursday, Viscount CLEMENTS renewed his opposition. Mr. WAL- LACE moved that the Committee be postponed to that day six mouths ; asserting that the Irish in the West of Scotland were fast becoming Repealers. Mr. OSWALD denied that statement. Mr. VIL- LIERS STUART, alluding to some attacks upon him in Ireland, explained that he only voted for an Arms Bill, opposing the new clauses. The amendment was rejected, by 104 to 27; and the House went into Com- mittee.

Clause 13 specifies exemptions from penalties for neglect to brand arms ; and Lord CLEMENTS, protesting against all branding or marking, moved the omission of the clause. Lord JOHN RUSSELL reminded him that it was a clause of exemptions ; and Mr. Ross advised abandon- ment of useless opposition, and the endeavour to make the bill as good as possible. The amendment was withdrawn.

A discussion arose as to the definition of the word " arms " ; which was continued in considering the next clause, directing persons carry- ing arms to be apprehended if they should refuse to give up their names and produce their licences. Lord ELiar promised to limit the definition to fire-arms—and air-guns, added the ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Mr. WYSE proposed words to limit the operation of this clause to the interval between sunset and sunri-e. Lord ELIOT said that most of the murders to which the bill had reference were committed in open day. The amendment was rejected, by 124 to 63. The Chairman then reported progress.

CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.

The House of Lords went into Committee on the Church of Scotland Benefices Bill, on Tuesday. The Earl of ABERDEEN intimated his compliance with an amendment suggested by Lord Brougham, trans- ferring the latter part of the first clause to the second clause, thus in- corporating it with the enacting instead of the declaratory part of the bill. Lord CAMPBELL asked if the declaratory words would be struck out of the bill? Lord ABERDEEN said, not. Lord CAMPBELL observed, that then the bill was more absurd than ever : it declared the right of the people to make objections, and of the Presbyteries to cognosce those objections, but not to give effect to them : it would, in fact, declare that all coogregations had a right of grumbling. The Duke of WELLING- TON—" There can be no doubt shoat that." (Laughter.) The Earl of ABERDEEN explained, that he proposed to leave out the word "declare" in the preamble, but not in the first clause.

On the second clause, Lord CAMPBELL moved the omission of the words—" The Presbytery, or other judicatory of the Church to whom the said objections shall be stated, shall, in cognosciug, determine with regard to the whole circumstances and condition of the parish, to the spiritual welfare of the people, and to the character and number of the persons by whom the said objections were urged." After a short con- versation, the amendment was rejected, by 31 to 14. The other clauses were passed ; and the House resumed ; the bill to be reported on Thursday.

On Thursday, the bill was reported with amendments, and agreed to ; to be read a third time on Monday.

CHURCH ENDOWMENTS.

In the House of Lords, on Monday, the Bishop of LONDON moved the third reading of the Church Endowments Bill, which empowers the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to endow additional ministers in large and populous parishes. Lord COTTENHAM objected to the bill, on two grounds,—that it subtracted from the value of existing livings without giving the patron, as compensation, any share of the patronage in respect to the newly-endowed livings ; and that it repealed the statutes of mortmain, enabling lands to be devised by will, whereas the Act of the 9th Geo. II. c. 36 enacted that land should not be given for cha- ritable purposes in extremis, but by deed of gift enrolled twelve months before the death of the donor. The Bishop of LONDON contended, that the bill did not diminish the value of livings in any unprecedented or unreasonable way : it did not meddle with tithes, but only transferred to the incumbents of the new livings fees for performing duties which the incumbents of the existing livings are unable to perform. The patronage of the new livings was given alternately to the Crown and the Bishop, because they were the parties who furnished the means of endowment. The statute of mortmain had often been modified for the benefit of charitable trusts, and the bill gave security against abuses. Lord Cottenham was supported by Lord CAMPBELL ; and Lord BROUGHAM moved the omission and insertion of words to bring the operation of the bill "within the provisions of the 9th of George II." Eventually, the bill was read a third time, but not passed ; so as to give time for considering the amendments. Next day, an amendment to obviate the main objection to the bill was agreed to, and it passed.

MISCELLANEOUS.

TEE NATIONAL REMONSTRANCE. The SPEAKER stated on Monday, that be could find no precedent for receiving a " remonstrance "; and Mr. Tuomes DUNCOMBE accordingly withdrew the document with which he had been in- trusted for presentation.

THE USURY Levis expire at the end of the session; and in answer to Mr. LABOUCHERE, on Monday, the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that Government intended to renew the existing law for a limited period.

DUELLING. Mr. EDWARD TURNER asked, on Monday, whether the Crown would visit with signal displeasure all persons engaged as principals or seconds in duels ; and whether Ministers would next session bring in a bill to suppress duelling? Sir ROMERT PEEL replied, that Government was not prepared to take either of the courses indicated : any course taken on the subject must be the result of mature deliberation.

ENCLOSURE OP Commits. Lord WORSLEY withdrew his Commons En- closure Bill, on Monday; with the intimation that he should reintroduce it next session, if he had the concurrence of Government.

THE WASTE LAND ALLOTMENT BILL was withdrawn by Mr. FEHHAND, on Wednesday, the day fixed for the second reading. THE ROYAL ASSENT was given by Commission, on Wednesday, to the Canada Wheat Bill, the Townshend Peerage Bill, and various private bills.

CONTROVERTED ELECTION. The Durham Election Committee opened their inquiry on Wednesday. The election took place in April, (on the 8th and 9th,) when 507 votes were polled for Lord Dungannon and 45 for Mr. Bright, and Lord Dungannon was returned. There were two petitions against the return, alleging bribery after the election, in pursuance of a previous agreement. No petition was presented within the fourteen days after the election ; and on the 8th May notice was given, that those who had voted for Lord Dungannon, and attended at the Wheat-sheaf, a public-house, should receive the usual bead-money. Several witnesses proved that they had received It. each, having voted for the sitting Member, the usual com- pliment " to electors in Durham. On behalf of Lord Dungannon, Mr. Austin admitted that money had been so paid ; but he denied that it had been paid . because the recipients voted for the successful candidate.